[ANSTHRLD] Period forms for place name <von Basel>

HerrDetlef herrdetlef at gmail.com
Wed Jun 8 17:25:18 PDT 2011


Try a Google search for historical maps of Germany and Switzerland. You may
find a map of Switzerland dated to the sixteenth century that would show a
period spelling for the city of Basel. Or see if you can find any histories
of Switzerland that mention the city by name...if you're feeling frisky, try
a German etymological dictionary.

A "Bas(e)ler" is a native or a resident of Basel. By analogy, my own name
would be Detlef Marburger. But "von" is appropriate and period, in terms of
forming locatives. Some literary giants of the late twelfth/early thirteenth
centures are Gottfried von Strassburg, Wolfram von Eschenbach, and Walther
von der Vogelweide. "Von" did not become recognized as a nobiliary particle
until the late Middle Ages; I don't have specific dates at my fingertips,
but some out-of-period examples include the dramatists Johann Wolfgang
Goethe and Friedrich Schiller of the late eighteenth and early nineteenth
centuries, who received patents of nobility from the German emperor and
became known as Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and Friedrich von Schiller.

My own recommendation is to limit "von X" to locatives with specific
localities in mind, such as towns and sites. Recalling the Meistersaenger
Hans Sachs (John the Saxon), I shy away from "von X" constructions where the
"X" was a region such as Bavaria or Saxony; instead of "von Bayern" and "von
Sachsen" (since there were actually dukes "von Bayern" and "von Sachsen" in
period), I would recommend "Bayer" and "Sachs".

The other regions (and the names of their natives/residents) would look
something like this:
Lorraine is "Lothringen," and a native/resident of Lorraine is "Lothringer."
Franconia is "Franken," and a native/resident of Franconia is "Frank."
Swabia is "Schwaben," and a native/resident of Swabia is "Schwab."
Austria is "Oesterreich," and a native/resident of Austria is
"Oesterreicher."
Thuringia is "Thueringen," and a native/resident of Thuringia is
"Thueringer."
Brandenburg is the same in German and English, and a native/resident of
Brandenburg is "Brandenburger."

All this is totally off-topic, of course. Personally, I see no problems with
a German/Swiss persona taking the byname "von Basel."

Meine eigene zwei Groschen :-)

Detlef von Marburg
Tir Medoin

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Bob Wade <logiosophia at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> Could not find help in Bahlow/Gentry.  s.n. Bas(e)ler is an undated entry
> "from the city of Basel".
>
> The Blaeu Atlas http://www.library.ucla.edu/yrl/reference/maps/blaeu/ (A
> series of maps published from 16468) has the Latin form of the Province of
> Basel as <Basiliensis> but spells the city as <Baƒel>
> http://www.library.ucla.edu/yrl/reference/maps/blaeu/zvrichgow.jpg  I
> believe that would make the normalized form of the period spelling <Bassel>.
>
> Tostig
>
> --- On Wed, 6/8/11, Jillian Birtciel <saintesun at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Jillian Birtciel <saintesun at gmail.com>
> Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Period forms for place name <von Basel>
> To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <
> heralds at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2011, 6:03 PM
>
>
> Greetings!
>
> I have a client wishing to register the name <Issac von Basel>.
> Disregarding the given name for the moment, I believe the construction <von
> X> is correct, according to some of my readings from the Medieval Names
> Archive.  What we have not found yet is a vernacular spelling for the
> town/University of Basel.  I did find this amazing print:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nuremberg_chronicles_-_BASILEA.png
>
> with a Latinized form.  Does anyone know how to extrapolate, or have a
> source for the city name on hand that we might pull from?  His persona is
> that of a young Swiss/German in the mid 1500's.  I haven't looked up the
> information yet, but there is a University of Basel as well, established
> mid
> 1400's, might that be a good source for a period place name?
>
> Thankfully...
> --
> Yours in Service,
>
> ~Jillian Saint Andre, OSTB
>
> `*When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it
> means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' *
>
> * `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many
> different things.' *
>
> * `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's
> all.' *
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-- 
Hwæt! We Gardena         in geardagum,
þeodcyninga,         þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas         ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing         sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum,         meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas.         Syððan ærest wearð
feasceaft funden,         he þæs frofre gebad,
weox under wolcnum,         weorðmyndum þah,
oðþæt him æghwylc         þara ymbsittendra
ofer hronrade         hyran scolde,
gomban gyldan.         þæt wæs god cyning!



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