[ANSTHRLD] Joselin

Wed Dec 12 15:12:45 PST 2012

Not sure what this is worth, but...

http://www.the-orb.net/rolls.html

96. Arnold, T. (ed.) *Memorials of St. Edmund's Abbey*. 3 vols. London,
1890-96.

Contains the work of Abbo of Fleury; miracles of St. Edmund, by Herman the
Archdeacon; and lives of Edmund by Galfridus de Fontibus, Abbot Samson, and
Denis Piramus-- *Chronica*, by Joceline de Brakelond, 1173-1203; a valuable
account of the history of the abbey, written early in the 13th
century.---*Annales
S. Edmundi*, 1032-1212.---Three accounts of elections of abbots,
1213-1302.---*Expulsion of Franciscans from Bury*, 1257-63.---Conflicts
between the abbot and the burgesses of Bury, 1327-31.---*Chronica Buriensis*,
1020-1346.---Fifteenth century letters.---By laws of the weavers of Bury,
1477.

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm

d)         *AGNES de Percy* (-[end 1202/13 Oct 1204]).  A manuscript
genealogy of the Percy family names “*Matildem et Agnetem*” as the
daughters and heiresses of “*Willielmus de Percy*”, adding that Agnes
married “*Goselino Lovayn fratri Ducis
Brabantiæ*”[1034]<http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftn1034>.
“*Mathildis de Percy comitissa de Warwic, filia Willielmi de Perci*”
donated property to Sawley abbey, for the souls of “*…patris mei Willielmi
de Percy et Adalidis de Tunbrige matris meæ et Alani de Percy fratris mei
et Agnetis sororis meæ*”, by undated
charter[1035]<http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftn1035>.
"*Agnes de Perci…in viduetatis meæ*" confirmed the donation of "*ecclesiam
de Samara*" made by "*Willelmus de Perci pater meus*" to Whitby, for the
soul of "*Jocelini mariti mei defuncti*", by undated
charter[1036]<http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftn1036>.
“*Agnes de Percy*” confirmed donations of property by “*Matildis comitissa
de Warwicke soror mea*” to Sawley abbey, for the souls of “*Jocelini
quondam sponsi mei et Willielmi de Percy patris mei et Adelidis de
Tunebrigge matris meæ*”, by undated charter, witnessed by “*…W. de Percy…*”
[1037]<http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftn1037>.
“*Agnes de Percy*” made a grant to the hospital of St Peter, York, after
the death of “*sponsi mei Jocelini de Luvain*”, by charter dated to
[1182/85][1038]<http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftn1038>
.  *m* (after 1154) JOSCELIN de
Louvain<http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#JoscelinLouvaindied1180B>,
[illegitimate] son of GODEFROI V "le Barbu" Duke of Lower Lotharingia,
Comte de Louvain & [his mistress ---] (-1180).

*JOSCELIN de Louvain<http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/BRABANT,%20LOUVAIN.htm#JoscelinLouvaindied1180A>
*, [illegitimate] son of GODEFROI V "le Barbu" Duke of Lower Lotharingia,
Comte de Louvain & [his mistress ---] (-1180).  His parentage is confirmed
by a manuscript genealogy of the Percy family which names “*Matildem et
Agnetem*” as the daughters and heiresses of “*Willielmus de Percy*”, adding
that Agnes married “*Goselino Lovayn fratri Ducis
Brabantiæ*”[1057]<http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftn1057>.
It appears likely that he was illegitimate.  If it is correct that he
married after 1154, he would have been rather old at that date to have been
born from Duke Godefroi´s first marriage.  On the other hand, Duke
Godefroi´s second wife was probably too old to have given birth to children
after her marriage with the duke.  Joscelin accompanied his half-sister
Adelisa to England when she married King Henry I in 1121.  He was granted
the honour of Petworth, Sussex by Queen Adelisa before 1151.  The Red Book
of the Exchequer refers to "*Jocelin de Lovein xv m et dimidiam*" in
Yorkshire in [1167/68][1058]<http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftn1058>.
The Red Book of the Exchequer refers to "*Jocelinus frater Reginæ vi l*" in
Yorkshire in [1171/72][1059]<http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftn1059>.
"*…Jocelino fratre regine…*" subscribed the charter dated to [Aug 1177/Jun
1181] under which Henry II King of England confirmed donations to the
cathedral of Chartres[1060]<http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_ftn1060>
.

and there are others. those are two of nine hits for "Joscelin" on that
page.

Also:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08418a.htm

Jocelin

Cistercian monk <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10487b.htm> and
Bishop<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02581b.htm>
 of Glasgow <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06577b.htm>; d. at Melrose
Abbey <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10170a.htm> in 1199. On 22 April,
1170, being then prior <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12427c.htm> of Melrose,
he was chosen abbot <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01015c.htm>, on the
resignation ofAbbot William, and four years later (23 May, 1174)
was elected Bishop <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02581b.htm> of
Glasgow<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06577b.htm> at Perth,
in succession to Ingelram. He was
consecrated<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04276a.htm>
 at Clairvaux <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03798c.htm> on 1 June, 1175,
by Eskilus <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05538b.htm>,
Archbishop<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01691a.htm>
 of Lund <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09433a.htm> and papal
legate<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09118a.htm>
 to Denmark <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04722c.htm>. In the following
January he attended a council at
Northampton<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11107b.htm>,
and Hoveden reports a speech made by him in opposition to the claims
of York to jurisdiction <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08567a.htm> over
the Scottish Church. In 1182 Jocelin visited
Rome<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13164a.htm>,
obtained from Lucius III the
absolution<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01061a.htm> of
KingWilliam the Lion from
ecclesiastical<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm> censures,
and brought back to him the Golden
Rose<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06629a.htm> in
token of the papal <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm> forgiveness.
We find Jocelin engaged for several succeeding years in negotiations
between Scotland <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13613a.htm> and
Rome<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13164a.htm> as
to the succession to the See of St. Andrews. He undertook also the
restoration and enlargement
ofGlasgow<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06577b.htm>
 cathedral <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03438a.htm>, of which he built
the beautiful crypt <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04558a.htm>, and
himself performed the dedication
ceremony<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03538b.htm> on
6 July, 1197. The member of
prebends<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12371a.htm> and canons of
thecathedral <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03438a.htm> was considerably
augmented by him, and he bestowed large benefactions on Paisley, Kelso, and
other monasteries <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04340c.htm>. Bishop
Jocelin died at Melrose <http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10170a.htm> in
1199, and has buried in the choir of the
abbey<http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01010a.htm> church.
The Melrose Chronicle describes him as a man of mild, courteous, and
moderate character.

Most of what I'm finding is from early-ish period, from the eighth to the
thirteenth century. I'm having a hard time finding any variants of the name
as a feminine name in period. And I'm not finding any instances of
"Joselin."

Detlef

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Herald of Hellsgate <
herald at hellsgate.ansteorra.org> wrote:

> The intended region is France in the later part of our period (15th century
> if I remember correctly).  The intended full name is Joselin Michele.
> Supposedly she was able to find Michele as a surname, but I don't have much
> information about her full plan since I only spoke to her about it in
> passing really.   I suppose I should have gotten a little more information,
> but she had mentioned that she was unable to find Joselin as a female name
> in France and so I am trying to see what I can dig up (which isn't much).
> The name appears in the Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names as a
> male name with the statement "The use of Jocelyn as a girl's name seems to
> be quite modern."  I will likely see her tomorrow night at social so I will
> see what I can find out.
>
>
> Coenred
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 12 Dec 2012, Herald of Hellsgate
> > <herald at hellsgate.ansteorra.**org <herald at hellsgate.ansteorra.org>>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I have a young lady who wants to use the name Joselin (or some
> >> variant of it it that spelling is not acceptable).  The issue is
> >> that I cannot document the name to females in period anywhere.
> >>
> >
> > Emma's response is not uncommonly summarized as "The CoA doesn't do
> > panty checks".
> >
> > Further, E. G. Withycombe, in the introduction to her work, states
> > that women in England could bear male names, stating further that it
> > wasn't a feminized name like Richarda or something, but actually
> > Richard, Nicolas, or whatnot.
> >
> > What's the entire name, culture, and time?  I wonder if this is the
> > Joselin that I consulted with a few years ago.
> >
> > Daniela filia Ricardus
> > --
> > Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
> >
> > ______________________________**_________________
> > Heralds mailing list
> > Heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/heralds-**ansteorra.org<
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/heralds-ansteorra.org>
> >
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>

-- 

Was nicht umbringt stärkt.