[ANSTHRLD] multi generation Gaelic names
Kathleen O'Brien
mari_1184 at att.net
Thu Oct 11 23:20:20 PDT 2012
The only time I've seen two "O" bynames in a single name in Irish Gaelic
are the type Adelaide lists below - women's names that indicate her
lineage and gives her husband's name including his lineage. So, she
descends from one "O" family and her husband descends from a different
"O" family.
I've never seen two "O" family names in a single ancestral lineage.
Multiple literal "mac" elements, yes. But not two "O" elements. So, in
cases where a grandfather and an "O" style familiy name both appear,
granddad is indicated via "mac" elements. So, something of the form:
A mac B mhic C ui/ D
or
A mac mhic C ui/ D
where C is the grandfather.
And, as Adelaide notes, this only affects Irish Gaelic because Scottish
Gaelic didn't use "O" style family names.
Mari
On 10/11/2012 5:06 PM, Lisa Theriot wrote:
> [An issue has come up the a Gaelic submitter. Do we register Gaelic
> patronymics with two uses of Uí in its meaning as grandson of or male
> descendent of?]
>
> I think it matters if the person is Irish or Scottish, because Scottish
> Gaels didn't use clan names in the same way in period. In Ireland, I would
> still be surprised by multiple uses of ui because I can't recall seeing both
> a grandfather and a clancestor named in the same name.
>
> [We register patronymics in Welsh and Arabic that contain several
> generations. I wonder if we also register them for Gaelic.]
>
> We have ample evidence for them in Welsh and Arabic. In Gaelic, outside of
> a specific genealogical tract, I would be surprised to see more than two
> generations and a chiefly title or other name info. For example:
>
> Lasairfina, ingen Toirrdelbaigh h-Ui Concobuir, ben Meg Raghnaill Duibh
> (Ulster 1381.3)
>
> This is given name+ingen+dad's given name+clan name AKA 'wife of' husband's
> byname(s)
>
> Uilliam, mac Donnchadha Muimnigh h-Ui Cheallaigh, .i. ri h-Ua Maine (Ulster
> 1381.5)
>
> This is given name +mac+dad's given name+locative byname (probably
> dad's)+clan name + 'called king of' tribe
>
> That's about as complicated as it gets. Now, what is rational and what we
> register are often two different things. It would not surprise me in the
> least for two documented clancestor-style names to be registered in a single
> name.
>
>
> Adelaide
>
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