<div>Charles, </div>
<div> </div>
<div>You have given me a great forum for talking about one of my favorite topics, so don't take any of this personally.</div>
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<div>Charles has shown all of us some of the intricacies of consulting with a client who seems to want some contradictory things in her name and to be authentic, which really mixes it all up.</div>
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<div>If she wants a name that is from the period when Rome was in Britain. She wants ti to be Scottish and she wants it to be around 1100ish.</div>
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<div>Well, Rome was in Britain, in an official way at least, prior to 600 CE. The quick and easy timeline that I found dates the official exit around 410. <a href="http://www.britannia.com/history/time1b.html">http://www.britannia.com/history/time1b.html
</a>. If we can trust Encyclopedia Britannica, then her requested time period is about 700 years too late.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Bronwen has very graciously provided a Scottish source, (thanks!), but notes that it is out of the time range that she wants.</div>
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<div>So, what does the local branch herald do? How many of you out there are faced with this at least once a month at Populace meetings?</div>
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<div>Charles did the right thing in asking for help on the Anst-Herald's list. Now he has to go back and talk to the client about the issues at hand. The hardest part of that conversation is staying positive and upbeat about the obstacles in the way and turning her potential disappointment into a welcomed learning opportunity. (I have met Charles and he has a certain amount of charm that he can call upon for situations like these.)
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<div>In the end, she may not care that the dating is out of whack with her request.</div>
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<div>Please encouarge her to visit the websites that Maridonna listed and to read the doc provided by Bronwen. I will leave it to the experienced omonasticians to expound on the differences between Gaelic and Scots Gaelic, as I noted that some of what Bronwen has is from Irish sources with Irish locations noted.
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<div>The big issue here is that she has a great opportunity to do some learning, one of the reasons why we have this activity in the first place. Part of playing this game is getting a name and device and part of doing that is to do some research and learning about the time period and place of the chosen persona/name. To be a successful herald is not always to be able to doc and pass the impossible, but to get the client to do some research and learn something new.
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<div>Thanks, Charles, for your hard work and for letting me get on my soapbox a bit here.</div>
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<div>Medb</div>
<div>Star<br> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 12/20/05, <b class="gmail_sendername">Mistress Bronwen</b> <<a href="mailto:mistressbronwen@solhaven.com">mistressbronwen@solhaven.com</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Surnames of Scotland; Black; P.522; s.n. MacKean; has no dates shown earlier<br>than Dovenaldi Mackane 1329, and Donald McCane or McKane 1480.
<br><br>The Surnames of Ireland; McLysaght; P.171; s.n. 171; s.n. Mac Kean Mac E{a'}in<br>(E{a'}in is a variant or Eoin, John). See also under Muckian.<br><br>Ibid; s.n. (Mac) Keane; Mac Cahan. Mac Cath{a'}in. A family of west Clare who
<br>were co-arbs of St. Senan. Map Clare.<br><br>Ibid; P.224; s.n. (O) Muckian, Muckeen. {O'} Mochaidhean. Owing to the<br>similarity of sound when the prefix O is dropped this essentially Co. Monaghan<br>name has often been changed to MacKean. In medieval times the sept held a
<br>leading position in the baront of Cremorne in Co. Monaghan.<br><br>Irish Names & Surnames; Woulfe; P.319; s.n. Mac Aodh{a'}in - M'Kiane, M'Kian,<br>MacKeane, Keane, Kane; 'son of Aodh{a'}n.<br><M'Kiane> and M'Kian> appear to be period anglicizations. <MacKeane>, <Keane>
<br>and <Kane> appear to be modern forms.<br><br>I still really see no cites (at least in these sources) of the anglicized forms<br><MacKean> <McKean> <MacKeane> or <McKeane> during our period.
<br>~<br><br>Bronwen<br><br>"Quod Excogitem Sum"..."I Am What I Can Imagine"<br>[Per pale sable and argent, an antelope statant and in chief a pearled coronet<br>counterchanged]<br><br>~<br>----- Original Message -----
<br>From: "Charles Ó Floinn" <<a href="mailto:Tons@raf662bravo.com">Tons@raf662bravo.com</a>><br>To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,Inc." <<a href="mailto:heralds@ansteorra.org">heralds@ansteorra.org
</a>><br>Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 7:19 PM<br>Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Name info / check please<br><br><br>>A woman has asked me to find something for the name McKean that would<br>> properly date to about 1160. She is interested in a persona that dates back
<br>> to when Rome occupied the Brittish Isles but also wants a Scottish heritage.<br>> Not having the books or the experience, I look to you' all for assistance<br>> here.<br>><br>> ? Charles Ó Floinn, ?<br>
> <a href="mailto:tons@raf662bravo.com">tons@raf662bravo.com</a><br>> Herald, Shire of Rosenfeld<br>> Kilgore, Texas<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Heralds mailing list
<br>> <a href="mailto:Heralds@ansteorra.org">Heralds@ansteorra.org</a><br>> <a href="http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/heralds">http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/heralds</a><br>><br><br>_______________________________________________
<br>Heralds mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Heralds@ansteorra.org">Heralds@ansteorra.org</a><br><a href="http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/heralds">http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/heralds</a><br></blockquote>
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