[Loch-Ruadh] Speaking of titles.....

[Dana Mac]

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Jay Rudin <rudin at ev1.net> wrote:From: "Jay Rudin"
To: "Dana Mac"
Subject: Re: Re: [Steppes] Speaking of Heraldry ...
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:14:27 -0500

Dana, Thanks for asking.  Yes, feel free to post it on that list.  If anybody has any corrections or additions, please forward them back to me. Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin----- Original Message ----- From: Dana Mac To: Jay Rudin Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 1:11 PMSubject: Fwd: Re: [Steppes] Speaking of Heraldry ...
Master Robin, Would you mind if I forwarded this message to the Loch Ruadh mailing list?  We are in the process of trying to address people correctly at events and I am sure this message would help out a whole lot of our newer people. Dana Mac an Ghabhann

Jay Rudin <rudin at ev1.net> wrote:From: "Jay Rudin"
To:
Subject: Re: [Steppes] Speaking of Heraldry ...
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:57:13 -0500

Chiara asked:

> I would like request of those heralds on the list to list kindly the
> different etiquettes for addressing a person of mulitple title. If there
is
> a difference between how it is done in Spain vs England, and you tell us
> both? I have always been facinated by the accents that are needed in our
> speech to best compliment the individual we are speaking with when
> addressing them in persona.

Well, there's no One True Way (tm). Here are the basic principles as I know
them. This is based primarily on English practice, because I can read those
books.

1. There is a difference betwen how somebody is addressed, and how they are
referred to. As near as I can tell, one is never properly a settings, even though it was my
highest title. (I was a Pelican.) I did not want people to confuse my
Pelican title for a Laurel one in an arts setting, so for a while, I used
"Baron Robin" to avoid the potential confusion.

4. Noble titles are not usually used as forms of address. One doesn't call
the King "King Miguel", but "Your Majesty" or "Your Grace". If you are in
fealty, it is correct to call him "My Liege" or "Sire".

5. Nonetheless, don't be stupid. If I need to address Fritz, and he's with
a count, a countess, and two baronesses, I won't address him as "Your
Excellency", which could mean any of them. I will say "Baron Fritz", or
"Lord Steppes".

5. Only knights take squires; only Laurels take apprentices, etc. It is
technically incorrect, although quite common in Ansteorra, to say "squire to
Duke X", or "apprentice to Countess Y", or "Cadet to Baron Z". My cadets
are "cadet to Don Robin". My apprentices are "apprentice to Master Robin".

6. People with multiple titles have already heard all the jokes about
multiple titles. They will laugh when you tell one, but it will sometimes
be a tired laugh (unless you come up with a genuinely new one, as when Pyro
attached by Doctoral title to all the SCA ones on a scroll).

When Llewelyn was Baron of Elfsea, and a new Princess was attending the
White Scarves Circle, we were all asked to introduce ourselves to her, and
tell her where we were from. When it got to Llewelyn, he stood up, said
"Elfsea", and sat down. By period standards, he had in fact introduced
himself properly. (For the record, Princess Octavia already knew him well.
He wasn't being unhelpful.)

I thought it was elegant and authentic.

I hope this helps.

Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin

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