NR - Principality

[Carl Chipman]

Just finally getting to my email (gasp)

comments below.....

JP

Carl Chipman
Nomadics, Inc.
cchipman at nomadics.com
http://www.nomadics.com

On Wednesday, September 06, 2000 1:19 AM, BSilveraxe at aol.com 
[SMTP:BSilveraxe at aol.com] wrote:
> OK people, I have been very silent for a long time on a lot of lists. 
 Here's
> my take on this whole thing. We have started a discussion on the pros and 
> cons of whether a Principality is a viable thing in the North or not.
> (Whatever it started out being, this is where we have ended up).  My 
answer
> is, maybe.  But that does not mean that I support it, I don't!  And here 
are
> my reasons.
>
> 1)  Other than a few groups and households and political buddies there is 
not
> the cohesivness in the North that is being portrayed here.  The lack of
> participation from certain groups in the north last weekend kind of makes 
> that obvious. <snip>

I agree.  The North is not a unified whole that I wish it was.  My question 
is
"Can we fix that? How do we fix it?"

>
> 2)  Unless the State of Oklahoma triples in population it does not have 
an
> adequate base to ever attain Kingdom status. IMHO.  I just don't see the
> point in becoming a Principality just for the heck of it.  What we have 
now
> seems to accomplish the same things a new name, more banners, more brass, 
> etc. would accomplish.

Your excellency, following that argument, why bother have Baronies? Why not 
just have lots of shires?  From where I see it, the two main benefits to 
having a Barony is

1) protected calendar date,
2) Having a Baron and Baroness.

Obviously, you think having a Baron and Baroness is a good thing, <wink> so 
how is a Prince/Princess all that different?

>
> 3)  Another level of Royalty.  CPs can't bestow any awards except
> Principality awards without permission of the crown.  CP's are subject to 
the
> Crown's will.  The Crown approves changes to principality laws, etc, 
because
> they are part of kingdom law.  CP's do what the Crown says and go where 
the
> Crown says.  Frankly I think we have enough representation if the peers 
and
> the Landeds do our job by recommending people for the awards they 
deserve.
>

Landed Barons/Baroness can only bestow Baronial service awards.  Court 
Barons/Baronesses can't even do that.  If I followed your argument then why 
bother creating them?

I could replace the word CP with "Barons/Baronesses" and the above snippet 
will still be true.

>
> 4) It frees up the Kingdom calender.  How is this possible? The deputy in 
> charge of the calender already checks to see if there is anything in the
> region and ajoining region for conflicts.  That argument doesn't wash. 
 If
> anything it clutters it up more with four more events on the calender 
with CP
> tournaments and CP coronations.

I agree, it will not free up the kingdom calendar.  It will make it even 
more crowded..... I just see that as a good thing.   Wouldn't a uncrowded 
calendar be a terrible thing?  Right now if you want to go to an event any 
weekend you can.  Although the crowding might just be limited to two events 
if you do the Coronet List/Coronation next day thing.

As a landed noble, I must travel in the
> kingdom to baronial investitures, Crown Tournaments and Coronations.  As
> Baron, I'd like to travel to as many baronial championships around the
> kingdom as I can.  I constantly find myself unable to travel to these 
events,
> though, because there is the strong perception that the landeds *must*
> support events in this region.

I also agree that there is the perception "Its a local event.  How come the 
Baron/Baroness of X is not here?"  In retrospect, thats not a very fair 
opinion to have.  Perhaps we as a region should think about whether that is 
a fair expectation of our landeds (says the man from a shire).

>
> 5)Over the last five or so years the SCA has been undergoing a steady 
drop in
> membership.  This Kingdom has been losing the equivalent to a Shire a 
year in
> population.  All of the groups in the North have been fluctuating at a 
pretty
> steady basis and in some cases recruitment efforts right now are marginal 
at
> best.  We get some new members, but we lose an equal number of older 
members
> for different reasons, ie, moving, politics, arguing, or just get tired 
of it
> and go on.  These are facts.

Yep, backed up by good numbers too :)

>
> It is obvious to me that there are people here with PERSONAL differences. 
 We
> all have the right to our personal opinions but when it comes to flaming
> someones peerage because of their opinion, this has gotten out of hand. 
 Over
> the past several years, Northern unity has decreased.  <snip>

> I think to push this issue now would reopen all
> of those cans of worms (and we only just now seem to be getting them back 
in
> the can).  I have seen what politics and power grabbing can do to a 
Kingdom,
> a region, and a local group and trust me people if you think its bad now 
just
> wait till you have a principality.
>

Its possible that discussing this now will reopen this, that, or some other 
can of worms.  We can try though, and if things go bonkers, we can do the 
"Well, I guess we just aren't quite ready for that."  And we'll wait 
awhile.

I dunno, me I hit people with sticks, not real well, and get hit in the 
head a lot, so perhaps my perceptions are a bit warped :)

> HE Barn Silveraxe
> Wiesenfeuer

Having heard of the fallout in Mooneschadowe when it made a push to Barony, 
I agree that without a strong, cohesive, determined group, and attempt for 
anything like a principality could have disastrous results.

Perhaps we could use these discussions as a way to start helping mending 
and forgiving, and try to become everybodies friends again.

Ld. Jean Paul de Sens
Mooneschadowe, Ansteorra.


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