NR - Raffles, et. al

[shag]

  ya know, we are trying to make money to support a game that we all play
in. you would think that you do not want to do that.
 and by the way, what about people who associate with people who do illegal
activities at events all the time(green wolf) and still work with the state.

                                                   shag






----- Original Message -----
From: "Annais de Montgomerie" <maleahladywait at yahoo.com>
To: <northern at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: NR - Raffles, et. al


>
> --- Chandranath <chandra at plumes.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 15, 2001 at 11:35:07AM -0800, Annais de
> > Montgomerie wrote:
> > > I am confused. On one hand you state "No more
> > drawings
> > > in the North"; on the other, "I'm hosting a
> > drawing at
> > > Northern Regional Tribute".
> >
> > There is a difference between holding a drawing
> > where the winner(s) gets
> > something (particularly if that something is funded
> > by the cost to enter, but
> > apparently Oklahoma law does not make that
> > distinction) and a drawing to see
> > who gets what, but _everyone_ gets something (in
> > particular, of roughly
> > equal value).  If the latter were illegal, Secret
> > Santa would be doing time
> > in the county joint.
> >
>
> I understand the "everyone gets something" idea.
> But the fact of who gets what is still done by drawing
> "lots", i.e. l0ttery. If the "prizes" were to be the
> same, I see no problem.  But since they might be
> different, I still consider it a lot drawing. And
> questionable.  Ergo, it should also be looked into to
> guarantee that no laws will be broken on this either.
>
>
>
> > Richard says he has studied the law and determined
> > that a raffle is illegal,
> > but that handing out gifts to all contributors,
> > selected by chance -- in other
> > words, selling a 'grab bag', effectively -- is
> > legal.  I believe him.  It's
> > his job to study and see what is appropriate.
> >
>
> I was questioning whether or not it is appropriate to
> have his drawing anyway, after he stated that there
> would be no drawings in the North until liability
> could be determined.  The fact that what one gets is
> determined by chance in effect makes it gambling and
> Oklahoma has strict laws on the subject.  Again, I
> think that to err on the side of caution in this
> matter would be best.
>
> > I assume from your post that you misunderstood his
> > position.
>
> That is certainly posible.  I am less than perfect.
>
>  It is still
> > regretful that you felt it necessary to imply some
> > sort of dishonor on Master
> > Richard's part in the course of not only doing his
> > duties as Kingdom
> > Seneschal, but in addition, offering to alleviate a
> > situation created by
> > policy by generously coming to give MORE than was
> > intended
>
> I never implied or stated in my post any personal
> dishonor on Richard's part. So perhaps more
> clarification is needed.  I was in fact refering to
> the whole issue of raffle-type drawings, and the way
> this issue has been discussed and handled since the
> question of legallity arose.
>
> There were those who thought that re-wording the
> raffle would suffice.  There were those who thought
> that making it "donation" only would work.  There were
> those who said that any one was eligible to recieve a
> ticket no matter if they made a donation or not.  In a
> nut shell, I am referring to the fact of all the "ad
> hoc" interpretations of the law and the big stink in
> which it resulted.
>
> I was suggesting that re-wording or re-working the
> raffle-type drawings to "make it work at any cost" is
> wrong.  And that some people were making it seem as if
> it were acceptable standard practice.  I think it is
> dishonorable to do so.  I think when you have to
> "spin-doctor" the intent of the law, you already know
> that you might break that law. I think that we can do
> fund raisers that are miles away from even seeming to
> break civil law, instead of putting a spin on what we
> are doing to justify the means to the end.  We just
> have to find a way to do so in a clearly legal manner.
>
>
> In summary, I am less than perfect.  I have my own
> opinion about the "everyone gets something" type
> drawing; I don't like it.  I think that
> "spin-doctoring" the intent of the law is wrong, and
> should be avoided at all costs.  I think that we can
> do fund-raisers and everything else clearly and
> unequivically above the law.
>
> Annais
>
>
>
>
>
>
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