[Northern] hey everbody
Sigen3 at aol.com
Tue May 15 09:17:30 PDT 2001
In a message dated 5/15/01 2:29:59 AM Central Daylight Time,
ulfie at mmcable.com writes:
> Also, did you not present Lord Owen with a griffin tabard at NR Warlord,
> design of which is very similar to the badge you submitted to the College
> Heralds last year?
I had promised Lord Owen a tabard. At his request, I put the griffin on it.
The tabard you saw was exactly what he asked for... no more, no less.
> > For all that you say that you are not accusing me of doing these things,
> > my name has been mentioned. Many of the things you have written would
> > uninformed people to some very wrong conclusions.
> Your name is mentioned because you submitted the badge to the College of
> Heralds as your personal badge. That is a big visible link to the Griffin
> Banner, both today and in the Middle Ages. Back then, the people wearing
> someone's personal badge were considered their vassals, their followers, or
> their property, or in some way acting on their behalf. Since the Griffin
> maintaining a Black Star has come to be associated with the Northern Region
> over the years, through deliberate efforts on the part of a few, that
> you in a sticky position.
I am not responsible for anyone but myself. If others choose to wear a
griffin, that is their choice, but to imply that I somehow convinced them to
wear it is wrong. I have said again and again that people asked me if they
could use it. Again, I have *never* asked anyone to wear a griffin in any
form.I understand the concept of badges historically. I also understand that
in our game, many folks use a symbol because they like it, not necessarily
because they are someone's vassal, or representative.
> In a separate post, you stated:
> > You are wrong. My husband drew my badge... Last time I checked, I was
> > married to Thorgrim. I have seen the badge that Stacia drew... It is not
> > badge I was trying to register. You really should check your facts.
> I am going off of memory here, as it has been a couple of years since I
> myself saw Mistress 'Stacia's drawing, but I know it had a gold griffin on
> red background holding a Black Star. According to Mistress Claryce, she saw
> this device with a collared griffin ten years ago.
First of all, 'Stacia's griffin is facing the other way. Secondly, among
other things, the one I saw had no star in it's paw. Thirdly, it is wearing
a coronet and chain around it's neck. Since I don't speak "herald" I can't
give you the blazon, but even I in my ignorance can tell the difference.
> I understand Mistress 'Stacia still monitors this list. 'Stacia? Could
> tell us what the difference is between Baroness Sigen's and yours?
> I, too, was given one of the first griffin medallions a little over a year
> ago. And it was given me by the same small group of people who have been
> pushing the griffin symbol and the concept of unifying the North under one
> banner and the move towards principality for years. When I say small, I am
> talking about less than two dozen.
Please don't include me in those numbers. I have never, repeat never, pushed
my badge on anyone.
> I am happy, as a bard, that my song had such a great effect in bringing the
> North together and promoting all three things from the previous paragraph.
> But I do want people to understand something. This has been a deliberate
> movement for years by a small group of people. Many of their efforts (and
> mine at the time) are now bearing fruit. It is a mark of success for the
> power of small change applied over time in effecting large changes.
There are also many new people who didn't even play then, who are for
> But I no longer sing that song. I no longer approve of making those
> decisions and those changes from the shadows. I have seen it done to hurt
> and discredit people, and recognize the danger it represents, even in
> selfless hands.
We have never hidden our thoughts on any of these matters. We have always
discussed the principality issue calmly and rationally with anyone who has
asked us. We never campaigned for it. Feel free to ask anyone in our
populace. We discussed it at one meeting. We answered questions, and told
our populace that we wanted everyone to vote, whether they were for or
against the proposition. We also told them that we would stand up for their
right to be against it.
> What is done, is done. All I can ask is that we proceed in full daylight,
> with full knowledge of where we came from and how we got these ideas.
For our part, all has been done in the light of day. We have made no efforts
at secrecy. It is true that we have not shouted things from the rooftops.
This would be irresponsible of us. We have no desire to make anyone
uncomfortable, nor to use our influence (such as it is) to make people side
with us. No one who has asked us has been denied answers. We have never
rammed anything down anyone's throat. Quite the contrary, there have been
many times that we have not shared our thoughts, lest people think we speak
for our populace, who are quite capable of speaking for themselves.
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