Found the coolest page, Across the top are thumbnails of garb and click on them to see the drawing: http://www.pipcom.com/~tempus/garb/norris/norris_top.html This is what I am wanting to make, it was in one of Talanna's books, now to figure me a pattern. http://www.pipcom.com/~tempus/garb/norris/3n355.html Susan