[NR] Northern name--ownership question

[Kevinkeary]

Have the rules changed, then, since the names Calontir and Oertha were first registered? Both were registered to their kingdoms, of course, but both were registered as REGION names to start with.


Kevin, being a pesky student


-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer Smith <jds at randomgang.com>
To: Northern Region of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <northern at lists.ansteorra.org>
Cc: Barony of Wiesenfeuer <Wiesenfeuer at yahoogroups.com>; mooneschadowe at yahoogroups.com; Barony of Namron Mailing List <namron at lists.ansteorra.org>; The Barony of Northkeep <northkeep at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2010 2:39 pm
Subject: Re: [NR] Northern name--ownership question


Figured this would come up eventually. :)
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Cisco Cividanes <engtrktwo at gmail.com> wrote:
 How would a name for the northern region be registered as regions are
 not SCA recognized official divisions of a kingdom (as I understand
 them)?

 Furthermore, who (person or entity) have ownership of the name?
You're correct in that Corpora only recognizes colleges, strongholds,
orts, cantons, shires, provinces, baronies, principalities, and
ingdoms as branches. There is nothing in there about "regions".
herefore, the College of Arms cannot register a name for a region, as
hat is not a valid branch.
(In period, there generally weren't 'regions' either; they were
uchies, counties, principalities, baronies, and so forth.)
The Administrative Handbook of the College of Arms states (in summary):
"II. Registerable Items
A. Names Which May be Registered to Individuals
  1. Primary Society Name
  2. Alternate Society Name(s)
  3. Holding Name
  4. Household or Association Names
  5. Heraldic Titles
B. Names Which May be Registered to Branches
  1. Branch Name
  2. Award or Order Names
  3. Household or Association Names
  4. Heraldic Titles
      a. Kingdom and Principality Heralds
      b. Other Branch titles
      c. Staff titles"
Theoretically a name could be registered as a "Household or
ssociation Name" for an individual, but the name would then be owned
y that individual. I suspect this is not desired.
Turning now to II.B, names that may be registered to a local branch or
o the kingdom, any such name would be owned by that local branch or
he kingdom. Again, I suspect ownership would be best desired at the
ingdom level, instead of by any one particular group.
I've already stated why a region name could not be registered under
I.B.1 "Branch Name". It makes no sense under II.B.2 "Award or Order
ames".  Which leaves us with II.B.3 "Household or Association Names"
nd II.B.4.c "Heraldic Titles - Staff Titles" (the "catch-all" group
or kingdom heraldic titles).
What is a Household or Association?   The handbook elaborates a bit
ore: The name of an organized group of people other than a branch or
rder. Associations include households, guilds, academies, tournament
ompanies, and other similar groups. Furthermore, the Rules for
ubmission III.2.b.iv states "Household names must follow the patterns
f period names of organized groups of people. Possible models include
cottish clans (Clan Domhnaill ), ruling dynasties ( House of Anjou ),
rofessional guilds ( Bakers Guild of Augsburg , Worshipful Company of
oopers ), military units ( The White Company ), and inns ( House of
he White Hart )."
What is a Heraldic Title? Titles for heralds, obviously. The Rules for
ubmission III.2.b.iii states "Heraldic titles must follow the
atterns of period heraldic titles. These are generally drawn from
urnames ( Chandos Herald, Percy Herald), place-names ( Windsor
erald, Calais Pursuivant, Sicily Herald), names of heraldic charges (
rosslet Herald, Estoile Volant Pursuivant, Noir Lyon Pursuivant),
ames of orders of chivalry ( Garter King of Arms), and mottos ( Ich
ien Pursuivant, Esperance Pursuivant)."
The Middle Kingdom, as has been brought up before, has reserved the
ames of its regions by registering them as heraldic titles.  I
resume that they have regional heralds, as do we, that use those
itles. (For reference, we have registered Nordsteorra Herald
northern), Eclipse Herald (central), Orbis Herald (southern), and
olstice Herald (coastal).  We still have Equinox Herald (late
amented western) currently not in use.) Their subsequent use of the
ames as names for the regions is a sort of backwards thing: as noted
bove, one of the patterns for heraldic titles is those drawn from
lace-names. Cute, but not necessarily very period.
It is *plausible* that the kingdom would consent to register a
ousehold/association name or a heraldic title name for a region's
se. This message is by no means meant to indicate that such a
egistration attempt would in fact be agreed to by kingdom. That's
nother matter for another day.
Now, as for the actual construction, aside from the examples given
bove, I would recommend to further limit name possibilities to ones
hat are decidedly of the "place-name" variety, as opposed to heraldic
harges, virtues, and the like. The reason for this is IF, in some
ar-flung future, the region wanted to become a principality, the name
ould only be transferred to the principality if it were a valid
lace-name.
As a practical example of this, the household name "Company of
ellsgate" was registered to an individual, with "Hellsgate"
ocumented as a place-name. The name was then transferred to the
roup, and the designator changed from "Company of" to "Stronghold
f", and registered as the name of the branch. This was allowed only
ecause "Hellsgate" was a valid place-name; if it had been "Company of
he Red Flame", unless "Red Flame" could be documented as a plausible
ame for a settlement (which I strongly doubt), it would not have been
sable as the name of the branch.
I hope this very long message has been useful and not too difficult to
nderstand. I would be more than happy to answer any further questions
egarding registerability.
-Emma
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