[NR] Come on...really...(Naming the North)

[Torinsmail]

Rose and those that have the same concerns...

There has been a formal process that was initiated and guided along by the 
people of the Northern Region, not by the aka 'influential' people.  It has 
been a very long process with multiple 'extensions' of timelines for 
additional input and discussions for those people that seem to wake up at 
the point that we are wrapping up each step of the process (i.e. concerns 
that someone didn't make it to the discussion at an event, we held another 
discussion at another event...concern that the discussion always happens 
late Friday night, had it on Saturday afternoon at another event...not 
enough time to talk about names, we extended the time to discuss names prior 
to doing the survey...not enough time to do the survey, we extended the time 
the survey was up for input...not enough time to put in a name, offered 
those to submit names if they so choose (in which no new names have been 
submitted)...etc.).

At the discussions, the only people that voiced that they were concerned 
with the name change was based on the fact that they were worried about what 
their friends might think that weren't at the discussion, not because they 
didn't like the idea.

The 'basic timeline' proposed (copy/pasted below) has already been done!  I 
apologize if some of you weren't aware of what was going on, but it has been 
discussed on this list and at multiple events in depth as well as discussed 
at Populace meetings.  This process will not restart just because someone 
didn't take the opportunity to speak when they had the opportunity.

It does not need to go to the Black Star at this point because this is a 
regional matter.  Once we have an idea of what we want as a region, then it 
will go to the Black Star.

Give members 30 days to submit names?  There has been over 6 months to 
submit names, so that has been far exceeded.  Right now we are finishing up 
the list of names, then we will see which ones are passable, then we will 
poll on those that are left...we are just getting to that step.

I don't know who the 'influential' people you are referring to that is 
'pushing' this through.  My husband has spoken up and help guide it along 
because NO ONE was discussing it online.  We intentionally left it to the 
populace of the Northern Region to set up the discussions and to keep it 
going so it wouldn't be felt as something being 'pushed' through by the 
heads of the groups.

I bite my tongue on a lot of this discussion regarding what needs to be done 
(or how, or when, or where), but now people keep saying 'we should do...' 
and it is already something that we, as a group, have spent a lot of time 
on.  You can speak up about your concerns, but do not expect for this 
process to restart just so you can have an audience to express your opinion 
because you missed your opportunity.

Khayra bint Tahir ibn Rashid (Kajira Camber)
Baroness of Wiesenfeuer
Kingdom Chamberlain of Ansteorra

m.k.a. Kory Lewis
a.k.a. Rabbit Herder
torinsmail at hotmail.com


Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:23:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rose <rose_welch at yahoo.com>
To: " Inc.Northern Region of Ansteorra - SCA"
<northern at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [NR] NORTHERN REGIONAL NAMING POLL
Message-ID:
<1309461805.10893.YahooMailClassic at web110411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Might I suggest that we already have a formal process for this? It's called 
polling and it's not just for Baronial candidates. :)

In comparison, choosing a Baron and Baroness is a decision that a Barony has 
to deal with for maybe a decade. This name change is a decision that the 
entire region has to deal with forever. I submit that this process is worthy 
of long consideration and polling, no matter how vexing that may be to the 
more enthusiastic proponents of this change.

I do realize that much work has gone into proposed change so far, but I have 
the unfortunate position of disagreeing with the idea that previous work 
should be a factor. I have youth combat weapons and art pieces that I spent 
much time and effort on, but are now obsolete and/or unusable. My lord began 
fighting in full plate, which he was reluctantly forced to discard, despite 
the expense and effort put into creating and obtaining the pieces. Most of 
us have made similar mistakes in our time and this may be the case with the 
process so far, however regrettable.


Here is a basic timeline to consider:

//

Step 1
Each Barony announces this proposed change at their business meeting. They 
set aside time to discuss the polling process and to encourage members to 
submit names. This information is also disseminated to as many members as 
possible through all reasonable avenues of communication, including but not 
limited to the following:

???? Verbally, at the business populace meeting.
???? In the Baronial newsletter.
???? On the Baronial website.
???? On the Baronial e-mail list.
???? In the Black Star.

Members are given thirty days and a list of ways to submit name proposals 
during that time, including but not limited to the following:

???? Verbally, in person or via telephone.
???? Online, via e-mail and a website.
???? Via snail mail.

[I believe that announcing this formally and widely is a very important 
step. I have only heard discussion or even mention of this issue online, on 
this e-mail list. Not at meetings, not in newsletters, not on websites, and 
not in person. We wouldn't accept that for Baronial polling and we shouldn't 
accept it for Regional polling.]

//

Step 2
The submitted names are openly vetted for heraldic issues. This step will 
require a number of volunteers with skill in this area and may take many 
months, just as vetting a member?s personal name submission takes many 
months. The processes should be similar.

//

Step 3
The vetted list names are given to the populace in all reasonable ways, 
including but not limited to the following:

???? Verbally, at the business populace meeting.
???? In the Baronial newsletter.
???? On the Baronial website.
???? On the Baronial e-mail list.
???? In the Black Star.

The list of names should include a 'No Change' option and members should be 
given thirty days to express their opinions on this vetted list of names, 
including but not limited to the following:

???? Verbally, in person or via telephone.
???? Online, via e-mail and a website.
???? Via snail mail.

[I recall mention of the number of people who voted in the online name poll. 
It was taken that voting was a positive sign in favor of a name change, 
which is not a logical conclusion. At least some people voted for the sole 
purpose of voting against names, as opposed to voting for them.]

//

Step 4
If no clear consensus for a single name has emerged, then our seneschals 
should be consulted for an alternate method of limiting the list that is 
both transparent and mathematically sound, and Step 4 should be repeated.

//

This entire process would take about three months, plus the amount of time 
necessary to vet the names. I am not a herald, so I couldn?t venture an 
estimate there. It is a long time, but not so long that it?s not a 
worthwhile plan.

I would submit that, although it is clear that there is a core of people who 
are enthusiastic about this idea, it is not clear that the Northern Region, 
as a group, desires a name change. This strikes me as problematic, to say 
the least. However, if we closely follow our formal and traditional polling 
processes, then no one would ever be able to say that this changed was 
pushed through by a few influential people, or have any sort of sour grapes 
about the process. That alone strikes me as worthy of the time and effort 
necessary.


-Rose the Obnoxious


Stercus accidit.