[NR] NORTHERN REGIONAL NAMING POLL

[Doug Copley]

Much of what you are suggesting has been or is in the process of being 
done. A number of votes have been taken about if there should be a name 
change or not. Meetings have been held where everyone was able to 
express their opinion.

No matter how this process is done, no matter how often it is posted, no 
matter if a change is made or not made, someone somewhere is going to 
feel that it was not done right and they will say it should all be 
thrown away and started over.

So I guess I still do not see the point in starting over. We are almost 
a year in to the process and people have been encouraged again and again 
to submit names, be involved, attend the meetings, talk to people, talk 
to their B&B, post it on-line, and be active in the process to either 
show their support for a name change or to show their support for 
leaving it as it is.

Vincenti

On 6/30/2011 2:23 PM, Rose wrote:
> Might I suggest that we already have a formal process for this? It's called polling and it's not just for Baronial candidates. :)
>
> In comparison, choosing a Baron and Baroness is a decision that a Barony has to deal with for maybe a decade. This name change is a decision that the entire region has to deal with forever. I submit that this process is worthy of long consideration and polling, no matter how vexing that may be to the more enthusiastic proponents of this change.
>
> I do realize that much work has gone into proposed change so far, but I have the unfortunate position of disagreeing with the idea that previous work should be a factor. I have youth combat weapons and art pieces that I spent much time and effort on, but are now obsolete and/or unusable. My lord began fighting in full plate, which he was reluctantly forced to discard, despite the expense and effort put into creating and obtaining the pieces. Most of us have made similar mistakes in our time and this may be the case with the process so far, however regrettable.
>
>
> Here is a basic timeline to consider:
>
> //
>
> Step 1
> Each Barony announces this proposed change at their business meeting. They set aside time to discuss the polling process and to encourage members to submit names. This information is also disseminated to as many members as possible through all reasonable avenues of communication, including but not limited to the following:
>
> •    Verbally, at the business populace meeting.
> •    In the Baronial newsletter.
> •    On the Baronial website.
> •    On the Baronial e-mail list.
> •    In the Black Star.
>
> Members are given thirty days and a list of ways to submit name proposals during that time, including but not limited to the following:
>
> •    Verbally, in person or via telephone.
> •    Online, via e-mail and a website.
> •    Via snail mail.
>
> [I believe that announcing this formally and widely is a very important step. I have only heard discussion or even mention of this issue online, on this e-mail list. Not at meetings, not in newsletters, not on websites, and not in person. We wouldn't accept that for Baronial polling and we shouldn't accept it for Regional polling.]
>
> //
>
> Step 2
> The submitted names are openly vetted for heraldic issues. This step will require a number of volunteers with skill in this area and may take many months, just as vetting a member’s personal name submission takes many months. The processes should be similar.
>
> //
>
> Step 3
> The vetted list names are given to the populace in all reasonable ways, including but not limited to the following:
>
> •    Verbally, at the business populace meeting.
> •    In the Baronial newsletter.
> •    On the Baronial website.
> •    On the Baronial e-mail list.
> •    In the Black Star.
>
> The list of names should include a 'No Change' option and members should be given thirty days to express their opinions on this vetted list of names, including but not limited to the following:
>
> •    Verbally, in person or via telephone.
> •    Online, via e-mail and a website.
> •    Via snail mail.
>
> [I recall mention of the number of people who voted in the online name poll. It was taken that voting was a positive sign in favor of a name change, which is not a logical conclusion. At least some people voted for the sole purpose of voting against names, as opposed to voting for them.]
>
> //
>
> Step 4
> If no clear consensus for a single name has emerged, then our seneschals should be consulted for an alternate method of limiting the list that is both transparent and mathematically sound, and Step 4 should be repeated.
>
> //
>
> This entire process would take about three months, plus the amount of time necessary to vet the names. I am not a herald, so I couldn’t venture an estimate there. It is a long time, but not so long that it’s not a worthwhile plan.
>
> I would submit that, although it is clear that there is a core of people who are enthusiastic about this idea, it is not clear that the Northern Region, as a group, desires a name change. This strikes me as problematic, to say the least. However, if we closely follow our formal and traditional polling processes, then no one would ever be able to say that this changed was pushed through by a few influential people, or have any sort of sour grapes about the process. That alone strikes me as worthy of the time and effort necessary.
>
>
> -Rose the Obnoxious
>
>
> Stercus accidit.
>
> --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Doug Copley<doug.copley at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> From: Doug Copley<doug.copley at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NR] NORTHERN REGIONAL NAMING POLL
> To: "Northern Region of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."<northern at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 1:11 PM
>
> I would have to disagree. The process has been discussed on-line, at pop
> meetings, and at many events. People have been encouraged to submit
> names and ideas. This has already been going on for nearly a year, so I
> hate to now shut down, back up, restart and do it all again.
>
> However, if the majority feel that it would be best to back up and
> restart I would have to ask that a systematic plan with a detailed firm
> time line be submitted to this list before I could possibly lend support
> to restart the process.
>
> Vincenti
>
> On 6/30/2011 10:00 AM, rose_welch at yahoo.com wrote:
>> I think that's a great idea.
>>
>> -R
>>
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Marc Carlson<marccarlson20 at hotmail.com>
>> Sender: northern-bounces+rose_welch=yahoo.com at lists.ansteorra.orgDate: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 08:54:32
>> To:<northern at lists.ansteorra.org>
>> Reply-To: "Northern Region of Ansteorra - SCA,
>>      Inc."<northern at lists.ansteorra.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NR] NORTHERN REGIONAL NAMING POLL
>>
>> In that case, I move we start over and clear thhe old list.
>>
>> Marc/Diarmaid