[Northkeep] The Northkeep list aka "Troubles in paradise"

[Marc Carlson]

Just to let people know, it was suggested by the shmoe who has the
unenviable task of helping Pug to maintain the Ansteorra.Org system (i.e.
Jean Paul) that I go ahead and moderate things just in case.  So I did.  And
in the plus column there hasn't been anything until Piotr sent in his
message -- and you know what?  Aside from Piotr's overgentle irony, I didn't
see anything to block it for.  It contains everything that I think a good
well-thought-out message should have.
I don't agree with everything he says, but that's the point of discussion,
and I'm going to respond to those points.

Now, I need to be honest about something.  I -don't like- to moderate the
list.  It's a pain in the rear for me to do it, it slows things down, and
more often than not causes me way more grief than I want in my life (You try
blocking every message on a specific topic, and you -WILL- wind up
alienating people - trust me).

So, we're going to proceed carefully here.  As long as people can follow
Piotr's example (sorry man) and behave like adults, their messages will get
through.  If I feel that anyone is getting agressive, I will send that
message back and ask them to tone it down. If they can't or won't, then that
message will be deleted.  Again, if people think I am getting aggresive, try
dropping me a calm note offlist.

===========
First, assume that if I delete something and don't respond to it in Piotr's
message, I agree with it completely.

>happiness etc. ad nauseum, are the sorts of things that *modern day*
>Americans have fought and died for. They are *not*, generally >speaking,
>the sorts of things that our *personas* typically did much
> >for/with/about... (A debatable point I agree, and one which I think
> >would make a fascinating conversation either here or in person...)

Count me in.

>I would respectfully request, that all of us - friends, >acquaintances,
>neutrals and even those who detest each other - remember that this is a
>public list. The audience includes people of >all ages... serve the same
>purpose today.

This is part of the major difficulty - so please bear with me.  If you are
saying that this is list that may be -read- by the public, in that fashion,
I agree that this is a "public" list.  Absolutely, this is a publically
accessable list.

Unfortunately "public list" is apparently frequently assumed to be synoynous
as say, "public park", an area that is *owned* by the public (This is why
the SCA can not banish people from a public park - it is owned by the
public).  This list is -owned- by "Ansteorra.Org", so in that context it is
not "public".  So we need to be careful, since that's the crux of the whole
free-speech issue.

>In the realm of "solutions not problems" I would humbly suggest the
>following as an alternative to a moderated list:
>1. Please keep in mind that Email is devoid of the non-verbal portion >of
>our interpersonal communications... There is no laughing tone, or giggle...
>No theatric sigh or shrugged shoulders that would transform otherwise
>offensive / insensitive / mean words into a moment of humor >or a sharing
>of commonality of frustration...

This has always been a bother to me.  People who read my email elsewhere
notice that I use very few "emoticons",  I don't believe in them except in
very limited circumstances.  People have been writing understandably for
millenia without them.  Now they are all to frequently a crutch to cover up
lazy writing, or passive agressive attack ("I didn't mean it as a -real-
insult, I was joking, seen the "smiley"?"  when some of the most viscious
attacks I've ever seen were spoken by someone who was smiling).  Here, I
tend to try to use them as a social lubricant only.

Marc/Diarmaid

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