[Northkeep] [Fwd: [Namron] Bowing out]

[Marc Carlson]

Sioned,

First, no offense was taken.  My words were harsh, I know, and I meant them.
  I still do.  But they weren't directed AT anyone in particular, but at a
situation.  Moreover, it appears it's the same situation that has been
frustrating to you as well.

I do disagree with you that Northkeep is necessarily "cliquish" -- certainly
some households can be, and the fact that a lot of people are unresponsive
to opportunities can make that seem a much bigger issue than I think it
really is.  But I can see why you might feel that way.

What I am about to say may appear to be a criticism, but honestly I don't
mean it that way.  I think that in this case, what we have is a failure to
comunicate. [My use of the word "you" in the next section is not directed at
Sioned, but as a generalized "other"]

I believe the issue actually stems from several different issues.

First is that a lot of people are really only interested in doing their own
thing, and are either not interested in doing other things. If you are
interested in doing what they do, and make an effort to get involved with
that they will bend over backwards for you on that, but may not be inclined
to go out and drag you into what they were doing. This can make them appear
unwelcoming to those that are expecting something else.

Second is that a lot of people are shy, it's not just you.  And that shyness
can make them come across as standoffish.  I know it's hard to believe, but
I am very shy (it's true), and can be very uncomfortable when people
approach me outside certain safely proscribed boundaries.
I overcome this myself by making myself do it.  It's not fun, but it's
something I feel I need to do. But when I come across as distant, it's
rarely because I don't want to have anything to do with you - I just don't
know you.  [OK, in fairness, there ARE some people that just turn me off,
but those are pretty rare.  If you aren't sure you're one of them, you
probably aren't]

This is why I've been trying to push for people to try to go out and get to
KNOW other people, and for other people to get to know them.  I know it's
hard, but it's part of community building.

Back to Sioned.

>feel welcome here. Right at first, some folks seemed interested in us
>(well, interested in Gareth and how well he could play and sing >anyway).

That was because you invited people to come and hear him.

>Susan (who is a dear friend of mine and will probably disown men now,
>I'm sorry Susan!) told me that since I quilt I could join up with the
>folks who do needlework, etc. Nope. I don't even remember who I
>approached now, it's been a good year ago, but whoever it was told me
>that "quilting was NOT a part of needleworking, so I needed to look
>elsewhere". Geez, that hurt. I backed off of playing even more after
>that and instead researched what was "quilting" in Period on my own. >I
>learned a lot.

Obviously whoever told you that was wrong then.  Since you KNOW it's period,
why NOT bring it to Needleworkers and keep Faolan company? I know she gets
lonely when no one shows up. You might even think about teaching those who
are interested in it (at least it's something to think about for the
future).

>I am very interested in herbs and herbalism. Susan tried
>to convince me to start an Herbalist Guild. After the quilting
>rejection, are you kidding??? I don't feel like being kicked again.
I -do- understand that.  That's exactly what I was talking about with the
teaching thing.

>My husband and I love to cook. It took me going through (I swear) FIVE
>people to get the information on just how to join the Cooking Guild list. I
>felt very much like nobody wanted me to participate and they were all just
>giving me the run around. I was actually surprised when I finally got on
>it.

Don't look at me, I haven't been able to find out how to join it so I could
put that information on the web page.

>Room every year where I have to feed 50 or more people breakfast and
>lunch daily for three days straight at a convention where I have no
>cooking supplies. No one even said thank you, those are good ideas. >Wow,
>that hurt too.

There is a problem with e-mail -- people rarely say thank you.  It took me
*years* to learn to deal with that (I finally figured out that the best way
to get someone to respond to you is to INTENTIONALLY post incorrect
information.  And that violates my personal view on how to do things).

>no one acknowledges it. I was surprised when Dairmaid responded with >the
>very helpful links and information when I asked about Guilds and
>Households. Thank you, Dairmaid.

You're welcome.

>something being discussed and so had arranged it. I posted and was
>publicly welcomed there. For about a week. Then after a few days of
>quiet Dairmaid posted that if you were not an Officer or a Deputy you
>were not allowed to post. It made me SO embarrassed and hurt! I am >sure
>that he wasn't directing the statement to me (if he had been, he
>probably would have said, "Hey Sioned, please, don't post anymore"
>because he doesn't beat around the bush). Maybe he even posts that >every
>month or something as a reminder.

I probably should.  I thought it was in the information you get when you get
signed on.  The reason you were added was that while going through the lists
of deputies that I'd been given, and I realized that I'd screwed up and left
some people off.  I believe I was given later information that said you
weren't a deputy - at this point I have no idea what the status of who's a
deputy or isn't.  It was certainly not my intent to rebuff you, but to try
to _include_ you.  The confusion is mine, and I'm sorry that I've caused any
hurt feelings.

The officer's list was set up to give the officers and deputies a place to
talk about things that are of relevance only to Northkeep.  Any member of
Northkeep can belong to the list and read what's said, it's not a secret -
but the goal was to try to avoid things getting bogged down.

I'm delighted that Stonie enjoyed shoe class, and I truly hope he contiues
to come. He seems to have a lot to contribute.  Personally, I think you do
too.

Marc/Diarmaid

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