[Northkeep] another opinion

Marc Carlson marccarlson20 at hotmail.com
Wed Jun 6 06:50:17 PDT 2007


>From: Hugh & Belinda Niewoehner <burgborrendohl at valornet.com>
>...At this last event two things occurred which reflect _my_ opinion of
>chivalry.  I was walking with a heavy item and a gentle quickly
>approached me and offered to carry it.  "At least some of us believe in
>the old ways," he told me as he did so.  On Sunday morning, however, as
>one of our ladies (not me) struggled to lift a large trash can to empty
>it, two healthy young men sat and watched her.  Should she have asked
>them to help?  Maybe.  But wouldn't it have been more to their credit if
>they had offered?  I'm not suggesting that men must throw their cloaks
>across mud puddles, etc.  It just seems to me over the years that there
>are less of the type of gentles in the first category.  I think this is
>a reflection of our world in general and not just the SCA.  And not
>considering other people's desire to hear court or sleep fall into the
>same category of selfishness in my opinion.

And I maintain that we've *always* had those sorts of people, always had the 
complaint that"things aren't as good as they used to be".  After all, on a 
broader canvas, that's why a number of people JOIN the SCA - because of the 
perception that the past was somehow romantically "better".

Just as a digression, I don't recall on what list the last discussion of 
Chivalry I was engaged in was, but I'll re-iterate the basics here.  First 
of all, I don't help people because they are women, or are weaker than I am. 
  I help them because they need help.  The modern concept of Chivalry is a 
fantasy that developed fully in the Cult of the Gentleman in Victorian 
England (although arguably begun as early as Castiglione's Book of the 
Courtier - I don't agree with this, but the argument still exists, darnit).  
Does that mean you shouldn't want it?  Certainly not, it's just not my 
thing.  Courtesy, as I mentioned (and thank you) *is* period.  Even there, 
though, there are differences in opinions - for example, I was raised to not 
go in where I'm not invited, that it was rude to force yourself into other 
people's situations.  I've tried to learn that there are times when it is 
appropriate to poke my nose in, but for the most part I'm pretty reluctant 
to push my assistance on others unless there's some sort of overriding duty 
or obligation to do so, since otherwise a disrespectful statement that I 
don't think the other person can not take care of themselves.

So, as you can see, it's sometimes hard to even get the same terms to mean 
tha same thing.  I would like to think that we might agree that in general 
"courtesy" means thinking about other people and giving them the same 
consideration and treatment that we would prefer for ourselves.

>Although I probably have offended someone, it was not my intention.  As,
>Lord Angus Gunn said, these are generalizations.  I can think of no one
>in Northkeep that I wish to hurt or offend and if I have done so, please
>accept my apologies.

Don't worry, I'll flog you later....

M/D

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