RF - Arms and tmepers

[Lorraine and/or Kief]

(snip)
> > Do not blame one person
> > for you not receiving your thistle or any other arawd
> > you think you are worthy of.
>
>i don't i pointed at the baroness because she raised her head highest
>out of the crowd of suspected enemies

How did she "raise her head the highest"?
She has been one of your greatest proponents...no matter how
you have slammed her because of some past slight....

>enemies that the baron himself admitted are dedicated to the proposition
>that i never recieve any award for anything ever again

What enemies...I and many others (as well as Chrystal)
have promoted you. And you say that just because you do not
meet our criteria for an award...we are enemies

Give me a break!!!!!

Ya know what...a number of us were discussing putting in
an award rec for you, but because of your behavior, you
blew it with me and a number of others...
An award is given to someone in the SCA for things that benefit
the SCA at the judgement of people in the SCA. Those people
use as part of their judgement the actions of that person towards
others in the SCA...in my opinion there is no reason to
reward people for negative behavior, it just perpetuates it.


>thats a wrongness that that kind of attitude is
>condoned that the deserving are banned from awards for
>personal reasons?????

Deserving by whose standards...
Banned how????
In reaching for an award you are asking others to compare you
to their criteria for an award. You are seeking others approval.

>your a bit opinionatedfrom time to
>time as well sweety   do you want people blocking YOU from your goals
>till you fit their mold?
>
> > Because when the cookie
> > crumbles it is the decision of the crown, not the
> > barony, baroness or baron
>
>and so why do you need baronial support at all ? why do those that
>oppose me matter at all because the crown cares what they
>think

The Baron and Baroness are the voice and eyes of the Crown...
their recommendations hold weight...as well as others the
Crown knows...usually that's all they hear or see
because few other people send in the award recommendations...

>(unless i spend a bunch of money to go "other places" as
>timo suggests)

If you go other places then others may ask our B&B why you
are not recognized in your own Barony, if you feel the deck
is so stacked against you here, why even try here???

How do you think the "Crown" is going to get to know your
expertise if you don't travel and display your works in
other places?

>i don't want a thistle to show to stargate or anyone else  i want >a 
>thistle to show jillalli and berta   all >the others (who i won't name 
>here) who try to treat me like a no >talent buffoon

and you think that a thistle is going to change people's perception
of you...people treat you in reaction to your actions and words
an award is not going to change that...

>I AM A DAMN >TALENTED BUFFOOON THANK YOU VERY MUCH! or when i get >the 
>"what are you going to do for your barony"    i must ask , what >the F$@# 
>has my BARONY >done FOR ME lately? see i have no problem >being honest      
>        i care about ME FIRST!
>many people around SAY they are serving the barony FIRST but kingdom
>offices sure look good when your in stargate or kingoms elsewhere
>they make you a somebody(to those that care) more than a freakin >sable 
>thistle in illumination if your not carrying an example of >your work.
>

What makes you SOMEBODY anywhere is not the awards they carry...
It is that people know you and your work and respect you for it...
And if you care to look...the same people who hold offices in the
barony, regionaly and in the kingdom are the same people that
are ALWAYS there WORKING at events and other baronial projects.

(snip)
>
>right on the first guess           i have attained an undeniable level
>of skill          SKILL DEAR LADY thats what thistles award
>
> > Were that true, than Cammie would have received
> > her Aoa years ago instead of last year after having
> > played for 13 years.
>
>SMILE i love it when people trip over their own ignorance AoA's are
>for SERVICE   not SKILL >harder to determine.again  i ask is this really 
>the kind of >thing your proud of?    13 years without an AoA?
>oh this is good management , this is something to point out
>actually it IS for ME to point and say HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE IN A WELL
>RUN SOCIETY????????????????????????????????????????

You must be imagining something...a well run society...the SCA is
imperfect at best...run by volunteers who do things because they
love the SCA and want to keep it running...

>i think cammie's problem with her AoA may have been the same as mine
>now.   she didn't fit someones mold.
>show her this e mail and ask her. (for if you do*SMILE*    hi yah cammie
>love yah mamma! MMMMWAH)

I can't speak for her early years but I met Cammie at Renfaire
and didn't see her at an SCA event until a few years ago...
RenFaire is an SCA demo and awards can't be given there.
She started showing up periodically at events and
Wah Lah!!!!! She got her AoA for the service she did at faire...

(clip)
>where i earned my sable thistle in bard craft.

Ask DSD why you really earned your thistle...It might suprize you

>
> > Yes, I am still upset about it.
> > Think on your actions and then think if your demeanor
> > is worth the award fo the Sable Thistle.
>
>i am so GD tired of saying this SABLE THISTLES ARE AWARDED FOR SKILL
>DAMNIT NOT HUMILITY OR DEMEANOR

Though they are awarded for "skill" and research in the arts and sciences, 
part of what is expected is to act in a demeanor befitting
a lord or lady.

>LOOK NICCOLETTE I TAUGHT YOU
>YOUR FIRST FRICKING SONG

and she has risen above it...she is researching and teaching
and benefiting the SCA in many ways...

>IN THE SCA DON"T SIT THERE IN THAT CHAIR AND
>DICTATE THE EXACT SCREWED UP ATTITUDE I"M FIGHTING AND EXPECT ME NOT 
> >TO>BLAST YOU ABOUT IT!WARNING WILL ROBINSON YOU ARE  IN DANGER OF
>BECOMING ANOTHER OF WHAT THE SCA HAS TOO  DAMN MANY OF!!!!!

(maybe we should develope a check list of things to do
like they do merit badges...complete X projects and you
automatically get an X)

Who's dictating to whom???


>it didn't get lorraine liked very well when she was like that

I don't give a SH** whether anyone likes me or not...
Many of the things I did and said were because, lots
of people had serious problems with others and did not
have the balls to speak up...I ended up taking the brunt
of a lot of stuff because I actually went to people
and expressed concern...


>(SIDE NOTE she's altogether better about it now...mostly *smile)

I wouldn't say better, just have realized I wasted way too much
energy in trying to "make things smooth" and in trying to help people who 
just wanted to be psuedo-fantasy and party in costume to become
really a part of the SCA and get them involved in the Barony...
I now try to only give my time and energy to things that really
matter to me...and will only help if asked...And am trying to
spend my time doing things in a more period manner, improve
myself and improve the Barony...and of course... having fun...


>
> > Personally..
> > as much as  I enjoy the beauty of your tallents, would
> > not recommend you for such an award. I am truely
> > sorry.
>
>thanks for letting me know how you feel           i'll count you amoung
>the enemies now.

Oh how juvenile...if you aren't for me you're against me....

(snip)

>
> >
> > Look at yourself from the outside.  Would you
> > recommend some one for an award that disrupted a
> > bardic competition or  performance in the manner that
> > you did? I honestly hope not.
>
>and what does bardic have to do with SKILL in bone carving?

It has to do with respect...why should someone respect what
you do in the arts if you don't respect what they do?

>it sounds pissy *so what* but why should i care about others ? since
>it's all rigged anyway? IF YOU CAN'T PROGRESS WITHOUT APPROVAL FROM >THE 
>RIGHT PEOPLE>THATS RIGGED!

Progress how???
You achieve awards because other people see you have done the
things that fit their criteria for an award and write in
to the B&B, Seneschal and/or Crown. It is all the subjective
approval of other people...especially the Crown!!!!

Progress in your art is when you determine you reach a certian
level in your art through production, research or in comparison to
other artists or through discussion of with "experts"

>besides i haven't really thought much of a
>bardic compitition at the stones in one hell of a while
>they ARE rigged against ME! thats a fact.

By who's report???

>i've been in the sca many years longer than you i have a sable
>THISTLE in BARDCRAFT i've only won a bardic compitition   here
>TWICE my second or so event (gates edge held it here)      and one
>when jillalli wasn't a judge >and the winner was picked by the crowd.
>does that suggest something to YOU?

Yeah, that Jalali has different standards than a general crowd of people. 
She has criteria that has been influenced by college (she has a music 
degree) and by the MANY years she has be in and judging
competitions throughout the Known World.

and it's her fault that you aren't able to meet her criteria...
yeah right...

>never won a bardic judged by ravensfort judges          in nearly ten
>years. of course jillalli is almost allways a judge being a
>laurel and all so i'm never progressing in the field i first
>chose ever so i chose two more and i'm blocked there too

Progress does not equal award!!!!

>ASK THE>FUCKING BARON !!!!!!

Yeah ask the Baron...

(snip)

Lorraine

>Ragan
>

> > Lady Nicolette DeLeon




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