[Ravensfort] Fwd: [Ansteorra] Re: lifestyles - SCA as "reality" vs. "a hobby"

[L T]

this was on the Ansteorra list and I thought ya'll might benifit

Lorraine



--- Michael Tucker <michaelt at neosoft.com> wrote:
> From: Michael Tucker <michaelt at neosoft.com>
> To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Ansteorra] Re: lifestyles - SCA as "reality" vs. "a hobby"
> Reply-to: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:29:39 -0500
>
> Good, thought provoking words, Bors and 'wolf.
>
> Regarding the SCA as "reality" vs. "a hobby": it's true that the titles we may
> be granted are meaningless outside this frame of reference. The offices we hold
> are transitory, and whatever "power" folks think they have as a result of those
> offices or titles is mostly illusory. I say "mostly", because although you don't
> really have the power to command, you do have the power to do good or harm. And
> that's where the line between "reality" and "fantasy/hobby" becomes blurred. The
> friendships we make, the good we do (and the harm we do) are all real. The
> people you interact with, their hopes and dreams, their joys and sorrows, are
> just as real as anything. In a Zen sense, these feelings are *more* real than
> the more transient physical "realities".
>
> So, if someone does their best to "live the dream" or whatever you want to call
> it, by whatever means (museum quality armor; period fighting styles; well made,
> beautiful and functional garb; historically accurate music and dance; service to
> others; acknowledging a blow well struck upon the field), then in a sense they
> are contributing to and helping to create the "reality" I mentioned above. How
> many people do you know (through the SCA) that you would hand your car keys,
> jump up in the middle of the night to bail them out of a flood, pay their way
> into an event (because you know they're good for it, or just because they're
> your "kin") - all without any hesitation or equivocation, and without even
> knowing their real name or where they live??? That's trust. That's real.
>
> Fancy armor does not equal honor. A white belt or a coronet does not equal trust
> or nobility. But they are symbols of those things, that help those who see them
> (or wear them) remember the qualities they represent. Like a koan, or a hand
> gesture, that helps you remember a Zen meditation or prayer state. Putting your
> hands together does not equal prayer, it just reminds you of it and helps you
> get there faster and easier the next time. Just so, putting on a white belt or
> badge of office reminds you to be more honorable, noble and trustworthy than
> society normally requires you to be. With practice, you no longer need the belt
> or badge to remind you... you have evolved into a more noble, trustworty,
> honorable person. And that's cool. And by living these ideals, by being a
> living, breathing example of them, you help those around you evolve, too. And
> that's *extremely* cool... and very real. :-)
>
> (I'm not saying the belt, badge or coronet are required to get there, any more
> than the knowledge of a particular koan is required to achieve inner peace. It's
> just one way to get there.)
>
> Hmmm... sorry, I've wandered fairly far afield. I suppose that's the nature of
> discussing philosophy, though. Back on track:
>
> I love this thing we do because in order for it to work, you have to be bigger
> (more noble, whatever) than you are required to be in the modern world. You have
> to rise above (or endure through) pettiness and vindictiveness. With reference
> to the recent film, you have to be "Men of Honor". It tends to bring out the
> best in us. It can also bring out the worst, and you just have to deal with that
> when it happens. Sir Ricardo said he loved it because it gave him the same
> adrenaline rush as live fire combat, and brought out the honor and trust and
> nobility within us... but, at the end of the day, you were drinking with your
> buddies instead of burying them.
>
> Those feelings of trust and honor are real. In this way, the "dream" *is*
> reality. You just have to remember that it doesn't pay the rent. :-)
>
> If someone who doesn't see that wants to fart off those who do, that's their
> right as long as they don't go out of their way to ruin or belittle it for the
> others. But if all they want out of it is a chance to dress in funny clothes,
> hit each other with sticks, get drunk, and be open about an otherwise closeted
> life choice (sexual, religious, whatever), well... it saddens me because they're
> missing out on something even more wonderful than that. And I would ask that
> they not p*ss in my Wheaties just because they don't agree with my choice of
> breakfast cereal. Public, blatant, deliberate attempts to destroy the ephemeral,
> wonderful, *real* thing I've talked about, are just mean (or at best
> thoughtless)... and are resented (and fairly so, IMO) by those who strive to
> "live the dream".
>
> My thoughts. Your turn. :-)
>
> Yours,
> Michael Silverhands
>
> "Yeates, Jay" wrote:
> >
> > synchronicity at work ... self and V.SirSeanMF were discussing
> > similar matters last night at our weekly bar meet, as they relate to
> > SCA, pagan, and "other" similar sub-cultures ... and the one of the
> > main questions we were mulling over was - when does a inclusive
> > sub-culture evolve/devolve into a exclusive cult, and what is the
> > mechanism for this ???
> >
> > onwards ....
> >
> > - -----Original Message-----
> > From: ansteorra-admin at ansteorra.org
> > [mailto:ansteorra-admin at ansteorra.org]On Behalf Of Baronman at aol.com
> >
> > * Baronman:
> > * ... To many individuals within the SCA-this is their way of life.
> > All their energies and devotion go into the SCA.  All of their
> > societal values are wrapped up in the structure of the SCA.  The SCA
> > is not a game to be PLAYED-but a way of life.  To these people the
> > SCA is a career.  They live it, breathe it and love it.  They go to
> > great length to be seen with the right SCA people.  They are always
> > working for the Kingdom not for the awards but because the find all
> > that they need within the SCA.
> >
> > Yeates:
> >
> > this is a particularly meaty subject that has some excellent
> > discussion potential.  who will join me at the table for the feast
> > (g)
> >
> > i ask a question to the rank & file, is this approach to the SCA,
> > where it is 100% your world ... a healthy thing?  in my opinion (as
> > is others of my circle) it is *not*.  remember one of the first
> > lessons learned in any zen training - first and foremeost you must
> > live in the world.  the SCA is not the world, to make it the world is
> > a unhealthy escapist mindset.
> >
> > hobby and fantasy are fine adjuncts to reality, but if/when they
> > become your reality, dosn't that begin to border on the textbook
> > definitions of mental illness??? (or perhaps i've just dated too many
> > psych professionals in my time ... grin)
> >
> > opinions / comments ????
> >
> > (note: along these lines ,... and last nights bar discussion, anyone
> > got a URL for a "cult evaluation frame" - tool used to evaluate
> > degrees of "cult-ness" ... can't find the ones i stashed away in the
> > past)
> >
> > * Baronman:
> > * ... So please don't fault these people who are so immersed in the
> > SCA way of life. ... Please be tolerant and try to understand where
> > these people are coming from.
> >
> > Yeates:
> >
> > that is definitely a two edged sword ... many have noted and
> > commented on a marked increase these last few years in a level of
> > rising intolerance of anyone who dosn't play the game 24/7, at the
> > higest level possible (the more periiod than thou syndrome), enjoys
> > the scadian world as a hobby/diversion, and/or has non-outside
> > interests/obligations that they place in front of scadian ones.
> >
> > more tolerance is never a bad thing, but it has to come from both
> > sides or it's meaningless.  unless it's unilateral, it often becomes
> > a subtle weapon to enforce compliance to someone elses particular
> > norms.  "raising the bar" (most common excuse given for these
> > changes) is one thing, but to use it to club people over the head or
> > enforce compliance is yet another
> >
> > 'wolf
> > ... why do i sense a pending auto-de-fey, guess that's what happens
> > when the subject of religion is broached (g) .... on the other hand,
> > fire is good - it burns away the dead & diseased, tempers the
> > healthy, and prepares the ground for new life.
> >
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