[Ravensfort] Everyone Please Read: MOD... was: same thought, different thread :)

Melina K umbraja at hotmail.com
Thu Mar 3 18:53:25 PST 2005

Please everyone read below the line near the bottom of this post and reply 
to it. This is important even (especially) if you don't want to hear any 
more of this argument.

This is a difficult thread to reply to but I'll do my best.

I'll take it chronologically for the most part.

To DsD's first post I will say that no, you're not banned for just this- so 
far. Though I have been told by numerous people that you should be I feel 
that you managed to keep a relatively cool head, started a new thread so as 
to bypass my attempt to stop this potential flame session and actually have 
some points to make so I won't cut you off. Though don't think starting a 
new thread will save you next time (You have been warned). The points that 
you make are your saving grace here.

I'll take this point by point then.

"there are probably fifty people, for that matter an entire Kingdom, out 
there who'd like to know answers to 'what the heck is going on here', myself 

This one's to the People. Do you Really want to know? I mean Really. How 
many of you out there want to see this dirty laundry aired on the baronial 
list? Mind you this laundry is over a decade old. Yes, a Decade. If you 
disagree take a look at DsD's own words "nine years this argument has been 
going on" (1) which were in a post back in May of 2003 making it nearly 11 
years old now if my math serves me right. So do you really want to know what 
started it and where it's gone over a Decade of baronial history?

"This is the absolute best forum we have available for working things out"

Unfortunately things rarely get worked out and only degrade into mud 
slinging which I think most of us don't want to be party to.

"When I ran the RF list, yer right, it wasn't pretty, but it was open, 
things did get resolved.  To squash an avenue of speech only leads to 
greater distrust."

I would just like to remind DsD of his own behavior as mod during the months 
NOT STOP NOW!" (2) Just so he can see the precedence for my stopping the 

"Maybe if we agree to some ground rules for a nice, constructive exchange of 
information, then we can use this list as the forum for working out whatever 
this 'problem' is. "

An interesting idea and the main point of this reply. I would be willing to 
allow a calm and civil discussion here so long as the People of the list are 
also willing to tolerate it. The case may be however that they just want to 
drop it once and for all. In that case it will be dropped for as long as I 
am mod and continuing to bring up the subject will be grounds for 
moderation. However if the People want to hear it, then by all means let's 
try to sort out the facts. I for one am a bit curious to see what we all 
have to say about it but I leave the decision in the People's hands.

Now on to Kief's post. Thank you so much for not ranting. ^___^

"The written and Archived record of the various Crowns, Seneschals, Walker 
County Sheriff's Dept, and Ravens Fort speaks for itself."

The list archives are all there. The majority of the posts in question (for 
the most recent offense anyway) took place between September and May of 
2003. Go look them up. I would suggest looking by subject and reading 
anything with BOD in the title and anything by or pertaining to Marvis 
(Doug). List archives -> http://www.ansteorra.org/pipermail/ravensfort/

As for DsD's second and third post... The second is ok, but the third is 
troublesome. It would have been better had it not gone to the list. Not so 
much the actual content of it but the attached message below it is what 
causes the problems. First off it is impolite to post private mail to a 
public list, particularly without permission to do so, an offense I am very 
likely to moderate an offender for if I get complaints from the author of 
the private mail (and don't even try to claim it was an accident because now 
one must actually put forth effort to make a reply go to the list and not 
just the sender). Assuming that is not the case here and since it is clean 
(though there is considerable disagreement on it's cleanliness amung the 
people who tell me to ban you I feel that everyone is entitled to their own 
opinion however tragic and in the minority that my be) I will not take 
action against it. Just don't do it again (You have been warned).

-----------------------------The Line------------------------------------

Now then I address the People again. I want to know your mind on this so I 
post the question, do you really want to Know the history behind the current 

If you do then reply to this post and tell the list just that.

If not then reply to this post and say so.

All we need is a simple yes or no, possibly a short reason why or why not. 
That is All. You may not reply to anyone else's reply, you may not go off 
topic, you may not reply more than once (unless you just seriously change 
your mind and please give the reason if you do).

I don't want to see any (more) of the story told till we can be sure that 
the People want to hear it. And in order to be sure of that at least most of 
the people need to give their opinion on this so I don't want anyone to be 
afraid of speaking up. You will not be attacked and your answer will in no 
way, shape or form be held against you. In the event that this occurs the 
offending party will be banned from the list Permanently.

It is a safer place on the list than it has been in the past (and I can 
prove my claim to this) so I want you to feel that safety. I work very hard 
to keep it neutral, fair and above all safe from the oppression of tyrants 
like those that we have seen in the past. If this were not true I would not 
suggest you read the posts of 2003, nor would I even consider letting All 
sides of this issue be presented on the list.

But for now I must impose a bit of censorship for the good of the group. 
Further telling of this story and any mud slinging, finger pointing or 
accusations (baseless or not), and/or posting a reply to this that is Not 
Just a yes or no answer, possibly with a reason, will result in immediate 

That means the 'thought' is CLOSED until the People ask for it to be 

I'll give you about 2 or 3 weeks to respond before I count the replies so 
speak up and tell your friends to do the same. Now, to get this thing 

I'm about 70/30% in favor of telling All sides of the story (which boils 
down to basically a yes). I feel this way because looking back through the 
archives I see one side of the story told over and over again while all 
other sides are stamped out and lost. I want to know the myriad of other 
sides and have them preserved for posterity in the archives so we can look 
back years down the road and have written record... but that's just me.

-Mel ("the friggin list MODERATOR")

(1) http://www.ansteorra.org/pipermail/ravensfort/2003-May/006275.html
(2) http://www.ansteorra.org/pipermail/ravensfort/2003-April/006225.html

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