[Ravensfort] Ravensfort Digest, Vol 59, Issue 40
givan-rede at suddenlink.net
givan-rede at suddenlink.net
Wed Mar 30 05:08:48 PDT 2011
Are we still meeting at the firehouse?
Gavin Rede
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Folk Festival (David Brown)
> 2. Re: Folk Festival (Hauldr Ari Grafeldr)
> 3. Re: Folk Festival (Dominique Epps)
> 4. A note of Protocol, please (Patricia Schmidt)
> 5. Re: A note of Protocol, please (doug bell)
> 6. Of Classes and things was ( A note of Protocol, please)
> (PatriciaSchmidt)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:46:57 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Brown <lddevin03 at yahoo.com>
> To: ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Ravensfort] Folk Festival
> Message-ID: <673865.67590.qm at web56604.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> The lady who is putting out the advertising for the Folk Festival needs a small
> blurb and photo about the SCA.
> Can the Seneschal help with this?
>
> Devin
>
>
>
>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:58:08 -0500
> From: Hauldr Ari Grafeldr <lordarigreycloak at gmail.com>
> To: David Brown <lddevin03 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org" <ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Ravensfort] Folk Festival
> Message-ID: <A28976C0-AD6B-4845-8AD4-457A0DD1E3F9 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> When I put together the fb page info I just grabbed the really good blurb off the Ravensfort website.
>
> Ari
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 29, 2011, at 6:46 PM, David Brown <lddevin03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > The lady who is putting out the advertising for the Folk Festival needs a small
> > blurb and photo about the SCA.
> > Can the Seneschal help with this?
> >
> > Devin
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ravensfort mailing list
> > Ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ravensfort-ansteorra.org
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:53:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dominique Epps <blueingreen at sbcglobal.net>
> To: ravensfort at ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Ravensfort] Folk Festival
> Message-ID: <354410.7537.qm at web82202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> there is official text we have to use.? Let me dig it up!
> Domai
>
> --- On Tue, 3/29/11, Hauldr Ari Grafeldr <lordarigreycloak at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Hauldr Ari Grafeldr <lordarigreycloak at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ravensfort] Folk Festival
> To: "David Brown" <lddevin03 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org" <ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 6:58 PM
>
> When I put together the fb page info I just grabbed the really good blurb off the Ravensfort website.?
> Ari
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 29, 2011, at 6:46 PM, David Brown <lddevin03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> The lady who is putting out the advertising for the Folk Festival needs a small
> blurb and photo about the SCA.
> Can the Seneschal help with this?
>
> Devin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ravensfort mailing list
> Ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ravensfort-ansteorra.org
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:33:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Patricia Schmidt <iris20 at sbcglobal.net>
> To: HerrDetlef <herrdetlef at gmail.com>
> Cc: ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Ravensfort] A note of Protocol, please
> Message-ID: <153512.81454.qm at web81204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I would ask that any further discussion of this be directed to me
> privately.?This is per Her Excellency's wish.? Lets comply.
>
>
> M. Jalali of Salamis, OL?
>
>
>
> (snipped for bandwidth)
> ________________________________
> From: HerrDetlef <herrdetlef at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ravensfort] A note of Protocol, please
>
>
> In Her Excellency's defense, I'd like to suggest that the "of" was perhaps
> simply forgotten. I often forget to write critical words...and I'm an English
> teacher! I should know better!
>
> If Her Excellency was unaware of the Atenveldtian custom of titling a founding
> baron "Baron (Name of Barony)," then I dropped the ball. I forgot to cover this
> bit of protocol with them before they were invested, and I would like to
> apologize deeply for any offense I have caused by this oversight of mine.
>
> For what it's worth:
>
> Since Ansteorra was once part of the Kingdom of Atenveldt, we have kept the
> Atenvedtian custom of titling our founding barons and baronesses with "Baron
> (Name of Barony)" and "Baroness (Name of Barony)" in perpetuity.?As such, Kief
> and Alix are still Baron and Baroness Raven's Fort, even though they are no
> longer the Baron and Baroness OF Raven's Fort.
>
>
> etc.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 02:05:46 +0000
> From: doug bell <magnus77840 at hotmail.com>
> To: <ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Ravensfort] A note of Protocol, please
> Message-ID: <SNT106-W42F9B8F131A567CD171278F0BC0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Questions on court protocol and custom and sumptuary laws in Ansteorra would
> be welcome on the Ansteorra Heralds list. Many people on that list can
> answer questions and actually enjoy discussing court customs.
>
> The address is heralds at lists.ansteorra.org.
>
> Magnus
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:34:43 -0500
> From: "PatriciaSchmidt" <iris20 at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'Sher M'" <runa.herd at earthlink.net>, "'HerrDetlef'"
> <herrdetlef at gmail.com>
> Cc: ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Ravensfort] Of Classes and things was ( A note of
> Protocol, please)
> Message-ID: <002901cbee83$0779f270$166dd750$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I will be glad to do both as they seem to go hand in hand.
>
>
>
> M. Jalali of Salamis, OL
>
>
>
> From: Sher M [mailto:runa.herd at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 4:01 PM
> To: HerrDetlef; PatriciaSchmidt
> Cc: ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Ravensfort] A note of Protocol, please
>
>
>
> Which brings me back to my original statement. I only learned the
> difference on Sunday afternoon. Quite honestly if a brass hat of any type
> is standing in front of me and I do not know them personally I don't know
> how to tell the difference via their brass hats. So if I don't know them I
> do a short curtsey and flee. We need a visual of the 'hat' for each 'level'
> with how to address that particular hat. I see people sign messages as HL
> XYZ, Lord MNO, etc. I know with your AoA you are declared a Lord or Lady.
> I know Mistress ABC means Laurel does it also include Pelicans?
>
>
>
> We need a protocol class and brass hat explanation class.
>
>
>
> Lady Runa of The Thundering Herd
> Barony of Raven's Fort
> Knight Marshal
> Deputy Minister of Arts
> Apprentice to Mistress Shanahan
> Bronze, Tidal Thunder
> Amazon Household
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: HerrDetlef <mailto:herrdetlef at gmail.com>
>
> To: PatriciaSchmidt <mailto:iris20 at sbcglobal.net>
>
> Cc: ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org
>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:14 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Ravensfort] A note of Protocol, please
>
>
>
> In Her Excellency's defense, I'd like to suggest that the "of" was perhaps
> simply forgotten. I often forget to write critical words...and I'm an
> English teacher! I should know better!
>
>
>
> If Her Excellency was unaware of the Atenveldtian custom of titling a
> founding baron "Baron (Name of Barony)," then I dropped the ball. I forgot
> to cover this bit of protocol with them before they were invested, and I
> would like to apologize deeply for any offense I have caused by this
> oversight of mine.
>
>
>
> For what it's worth:
>
>
>
> Since Ansteorra was once part of the Kingdom of Atenveldt, we have kept the
> Atenvedtian custom of titling our founding barons and baronesses with "Baron
> (Name of Barony)" and "Baroness (Name of Barony)" in perpetuity. As such,
> Kief and Alix are still Baron and Baroness Raven's Fort, even though they
> are no longer the Baron and Baroness OF Raven's Fort.
>
>
>
> TECHNICALLY (but not properly, since this is not an established custom in
> Ansteorra), subsequent barons and baronesses of Raven's Fort can still use
> the name of the barony in their names--somewhat following a custom that I
> will describe here in a bit. But since doing that would cause too much
> confusion--thanks to another breach of protocol which is widely committed
> but never discussed--we have to let this one go.
>
>
>
> In Germany, the head of a baronial household is considered the actual baron,
> but his children (and also his younger brothers and unmarried younger
> sisters) also use the title "baron" in their names. Let's say that Heinrich
> is the Baron von Chemnitz. His name and title are properly Heinrich Freiherr
> (German for "baron") von Chemnitz. His son Ulrich is titled "Freiherr Ulrich
> von Chemnitz," and his younger brother Dietrich is likewise "Freiherr
> Dietrich von Chemnitz." It's just that, for the senior member of the
> household, the title "Freiherr" is bound to the family name (which
> corresponds to the name of the barony in SCA usage), while for junior
> members, the title is bound to the personal name.
>
>
>
> In the United Kingdom, members of the Royal Family are also titled along a
> similar pattern. The first example that comes to mind is HRH Princess Mary
> Adelaide of Cambridge, whose father was the Duke of Cambridge. Since she was
> not a senior member of the house of Cambridge, she used her given names in
> tandem with the title "Princess," although her father and then her older
> brother--when they were the senior members of the house of Cambridge--were
> simply HRH The Duke of Cambridge. (I think that, while her father was still
> alive, Mary Adelaide's older brother was titled HRH Prince George of
> Cambridge. Their father--as a son of King George III--was HRH Prince
> Adolphus of the United Kingdom before he was created HRH The Duke of
> Cambridge.) A more current example is HRH The Prince of Wales's sons, who
> are HRH Prince William of Wales and HRH Prince Henry of Wales...Prince
> William of Wales will become HRH The Duke of Cornwall when his father
> becomes King, and then HRH The Prince of Wales if and when his father
> invests him with that title.
>
>
>
> SO...the listing of barons and baronesses of Raven's Fort would look like
> this:
>
>
>
> Their Excellencies Baron and Baroness Raven's Fort (Sir Arenvald Kief av
> Kiersted and The Honorable Lady Alix Catlin de Curci)
>
> Their Excellencies Baron David of Raven's Fort and Baroness Chrystal of
> Raven's Fort
>
> Their Excellencies Baron Niklas of Raven's Fort and Baroness Kezia of
> Raven's Fort
>
> Their Excellencies Baron Brian of Raven's Fort and Baroness Fionna of
> Raven's Fort
>
> Their Excellencies the Baron and Baroness of Raven's Fort (Lord Pasquale
> Pace and Lady Giovanna Lena Caronna)
>
>
>
> David, Chrystal, Niklas, Kezia, Brian, and Fionna can use the title
> "Baron/Baroness" with their given names, since they are no longer landed
> barons. But you and Pace can only use the title "Baron/Baroness" with the
> name of the barony while you are landeds.
>
>
>
> But, like I said, the propriety of referring to a landed baron/ess only with
> the name of the barony and not their personal names is lamentably ignored.
> So in reality, the formers are not afforded the courtesy of appending "of
> Raven's Fort" after their given names, and thus the baronial roll of Raven's
> Fort looks like this:
>
>
>
> Their Excellencies Baron and Baroness Raven's Fort (Sir Arenvald Kief av
> Kiersted and The Honorable Lady Alix Catlin de Curci)
>
> Their Excellencies Baron David St. David and Baroness Chrystal Arianna
> MacRuari
>
> Their Excellencies Baron Niklas Vasilevich and Baroness Kilbarta Kezia
>
> Their Excellencies Baron Brian du Val and Baroness Fionna ni Cheallaigh
> (technically, though, the title "Mistress" outranks "Baroness" in the case
> of a court baroness who's also a peer, so she is actually "Her Excellency
> Mistress Fionna ni Cheallaigh")
>
> Their Excellencies the Baron and Baroness of Raven's Fort (Lord Pasquale
> Pace and Lady Giovanna Lena Caronna)
>
>
>
> During their tenure, all of the above--except for Kief and Alix, who were
> Baron and Baroness of Raven's Fort from the moment of their
> investiture--were Baron and Baroness of Raven's Fort while they were the
> landeds.
>
>
>
> I apologize for forgetting to cover this with Their Excellencies. The fault
> is completely mine, and not theirs.
>
>
>
> Detlef
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:48 PM, PatriciaSchmidt <iris20 at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> A note of protocol please:
>
> Only a founding Baron or Baroness have the right to the title: Baron (group
> name) or Baroness( group name). They also retain that distinction of tile
> even after retiring the Baronial thrones. All successors are styled: Baron
> OF (group name) or Baroness OF (group name). If in doubt, please
> doublecheck the section in Kingdom law and, I believe, also in corpora as it
> relates to titles.
>
>
> M. Jalali of Salamis, OL
> Behold the power of Please...
>
>
>
> (snipped for brevity)
> Message: 7
>
> From: Gary and Carolyn Pace <bandb.ravensfort at gmail.com>
> Date: Monday, March 28, 2011
> Subject: Baronial Investiture
> To: ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org
>
>
> Greetings to the good people of Raven's Fort,
> We want to take this opportunity to thank everyone who had
> anything to do with the Baronial Investiture that took place this
> weekend.
> Yours in service with much love,
> --
> Pasquale and Giovanna
> Baron and Baroness Raven's Fort
>
>
>
>
> ******************************************
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Hw?t! We Gardena in geardagum,
> ?eodcyninga, ?rym gefrunon,
> hu ?a ??elingas ellen fremedon.
> Oft Scyld Scefing scea?ena ?reatum,
> monegum m?g?um, meodosetla ofteah,
> egsode eorlas. Sy??an ?rest wear?
> feasceaft funden, he ??s frofre gebad,
> weox under wolcnum, weor?myndum ?ah,
> o???t him ?ghwylc ?ara ymbsittendra
> ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
> gomban gyldan. ??t w?s god cyning!
>
> _____
>
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