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<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=4>I have a dole of doves. Which
drives the Thundering Herd crazy because they can't herd them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=4>Runa of the Thundering Herd<BR><A
href="http://thethunderingherd.net/">http://thethunderingherd.net/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=HerrDetlef@aol.com
href="mailto:HerrDetlef@aol.com">HerrDetlef@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=byzytym@charter.net
href="mailto:byzytym@charter.net">byzytym@charter.net</A> ; <A
title=lddevin03@yahoo.com
href="mailto:lddevin03@yahoo.com">lddevin03@yahoo.com</A> ; <A
title=gpace77586@yahoo.com
href="mailto:gpace77586@yahoo.com">gpace77586@yahoo.com</A> ; <A
title=ravensfort@lists.ansteorra.org
href="mailto:ravensfort@lists.ansteorra.org">ravensfort@lists.ansteorra.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 12, 2007 9:17
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Ravensfort] Where to meet
for Natives (non SCA stuff)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 10/11/2007 7:48:17 PM Central Daylight Time, <A
href="mailto:byzytym@charter.net">byzytym@charter.net</A> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
face="Bookman Old Style" size=2>What do they call it when Ravens gather
??</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>A Flock of Ravens.........we could starch our hair to make it stand up on
the sides LOL</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm not really sure what "they" call it when Raven's
gather......Wikipedia says:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>An obsolete <A title="Collective noun"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_noun">collective noun</A> for a
group of ravens (or at least the Common Raven) is an "unkindness". <SUP
class=reference id=_ref-1><A title=""
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven#_note-1">[3]</A></SUP></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<H1>Group Names for Birds: A Partial List</H1>
<H2>By Terry Ross <A href="mailto:tross@bcpl.net">tross@bcpl.net</A></H2><PRE>A bevy of quail
A bouquet of pheasants [when flushed]
A brood of hens
A building of rooks
A cast of hawks [or falcons]
A charm of finches
A colony of penguins
A company of parrots
A congregation of plovers
A cover of coots
A covey of partridges [or grouse or ptarmigans]
A deceit of lapwings
A descent of woodpeckers
A dissimulation of birds
A dole of doves
An exaltation of larks
A fall of woodcocks
A flight of swallows [or doves, goshawks, or cormorants]
A gaggle of geese [wild or domesticated]
A host of sparrows
A kettle of hawks [riding a thermal]
A murmuration of starlings
A murder of crows
A muster of storks
A nye of pheasants [on the ground]
An ostentation of peacocks
A paddling of ducks [on the water]
A parliament of owls
A party of jays
A peep of chickens
A pitying of turtledoves
A raft of ducks
A rafter of turkeys
A siege of herons
A skein of geese [in flight]
A sord of mallards
A spring of teal
A tidings of magpies
A trip of dotterel
An unkindness of ravens
A watch of nightingales
A wedge of swans [or geese, flying in a "V"]
A wisp of snipe
</PRE>Any of these group names may properly be used by birders who wish to
display their erudition, although it is probably linguistically inaccurate
(and it certainly is bad manners) to upbraid someone who refers to "a bunch of
ravens" by saying, "Surely you mean `an unkindness of ravens,' my good
fellow." Most of these terms date back at least 500 years. Some of them have
been in continuous use since then; others have gone out of fashion and been
resurrected in the last century or two; still others only exist on lists.
<P>Most of these terms are listed in James Lipton's <I>An Exaltation of
Larks</I>. Lipton's list is substantially based on very old sources. There
were manuscript lists of group names in the 15th century, and these lists
appeared in some of the first books printed in England. Many of them make
their first appearance in John Lydgate's <I>Debate between the Horse, Goose,
and Sheep</I> (1440); and Lydgate's terms along with others appear in <I>The
Book of Hawking and Hunting</I> (also known as <I>The Book of St. Albans</I>)
by Dame Juliana Barnes (1486). Whether Lydgate and Barnes coined any of these
terms, or whether they were setting down the terms that were considered proper
in their day is not known. Many of the terms did catch on, and the lists they
appeared on were frequently reprinted.
<P>The best source I know for investigating the histories of English words is
the <I>Oxford English Dictionary</I>. Unfortunately, on the question whether
these terms ever were or still are appropriate, the <I>OED</I> is not entirely
helpful. To make sense of the matter, I have placed the group names into
groups-- <PRE>GROUP A--The following group names are standard:
A bevy of quail
A bouquet of pheasants
A brood of hens
A cast of hawks
A charm of finches
A covey of partridges
A flight of swallows
A gaggle of geese
A nye of pheasants
A siege of herons
A skein of geese
A trip of dotterel
A wisp of snipe
GROUP B--These terms are not group names for a particular type of bird,
but have been commonly used for many different types:
Colony
Company
Flock
Parliament
Party
GROUP C--These terms are archaic; they were once obsolete, but they have
been revived somewhat in the 19th or 20th centuries:
A building of rooks
A murmuration of starlings
A muster of peacocks
A peep of chickens
A sord of mallards
A spring of teal
A watch of nightingales
GROUP D--These terms are obsolete; they appeared on the old lists, but
almost nobody has used them in centuries:
A congregation of plovers
A dissimulation of birds
A dole of doves
A fall of woodcock
A host of sparrows
A paddling of ducks
An unkindness of ravens
GROUP E--These terms are not in the <I>OED</I> at all as group names for birds:
A cover of coots
A kettle of hawks
A murder of crows
An ostentation of peacocks
A pitying of turtledoves
A rafter of turkeys
A tidings of magpies
</PRE>My categories are imprecise, but they provide some guidance about usage.
Have no qualms about using any of the terms in group A; use the terms in group
B for any group of birds that seems apt; use the terms in groups C and D only
if you don't mind being thought pedantic or literary; avoid the terms in group
E unless you know something the <I>OED</I> doesn't.
<P>Alas, the <I>OED</I> itself is not totally reliable: the word "kettle" (as
both a noun and a verb) has been used by hawk watchers for many years, and it
has often appeared in print; the <I>OED</I> editors obviously are not birders.
It may well be that the other terms in group E appear on the 15th-century
lists and were simply missed.
<P>Thanks to the following for their suggestions and contributions: Bruce
Helmboldt, Stephan L. Moss, Pete Janzen, Macklin Smith, Billie Jo Johnstone,
Richard Danca, Gail Mackiernan, Alice Rasa.
<P>Review the <A
href="http://baltimorebirdclub.org/gnchat.html">correspondence</A> on this
matter from BirdChat.<BR>View a list of <A
href="http://baltimorebirdclub.org/gnwhimsy.html">whimsical group names</A>
submitted by chatters.<BR>Visit the <A
href="http://baltimorebirdclub.org/">Baltimore Bird Club</A> Home Page.
<P>If you're interested in group names for creatures other than birds, here
are links to such lists:
<UL>
<LI>The Fairfax County (Virginia) Library's <A
href="http://www.co.fairfax.va.us/library/homework/faq/animal.htm">Group
Names</A>
<LI>David Featherston's <A
href="http://biobase.dk/Embnetut/Personal/venereal.html">Collective Nouns: A
(re-)collection.</A> by
<LI>Mark Hesenflow's <A
href="http://www.opus1.com/~ace/collect.html">Collective terms - Animals</A>
<LI>Melissa Kaplan's list of <A
href="http://www.sonic.net/~melissk/beastly.html#Nouns">Collective Nouns</A>
<LI>From Australia, Nudge's <A
href="http://www.interline.com.au/~nudge/GroupTerms.html">Group Terms</A> <!-- <li>OjoHaven's <a href="http://www.lrcs.com/collectives">Collective
Nouns</a>
home page<br>
-->
<LI>Neil Taylor's <A
href="http://www.sentex.net/~tntcomm/kwfn/numbers.htm">Birds in Numbers</A>
</LI></UL>Send comments or suggestions to me at <A
href="mailto:tross@bcpl.net">tross@bcpl.net</A> <IMG height=2 alt=""
src="http://www.bcpl.net/~tross/bbcpix/gnlist.gif" width=2> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P align=center><FONT lang=0 face="Bookman Old Style" size=4 PTSIZE="14"
FAMILY="SERIF"><B><BR><BR>Indicabo tibi, o homo, quid sit bonum <BR>et quid
Dominus requirat a te, <BR>utique facere iudicium, <BR>et diligere
misericordiam, <BR>et solicitum ambulare cum Deo tuo. <BR>Micah
6:8</FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=4 PTSIZE="14"
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></B><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
PTSIZE="10"
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></P></FONT></DIV><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black">
<HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">
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<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Ravensfort mailing
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