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This e-mail was not intended for the list, this was a personal e-mail and should not have been placed on the list nor should the reply out of respect for the others on the list, and the moderators. I hope in the future you will respect the wishes of the moderators. <BR>
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Michael<BR><BR>"If at first you dont succeed, excessive force is probably the answer"<BR> <BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR>
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From: byzytym@att.net<BR>To: mdowdy999@hotmail.com<BR>Subject: Re: [Ravensfort] need info<BR>Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:19:37 -0500<BR><BR>
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<DIV>Our Founding Fathers were protesters. I guess somehow you forgot that.</DIV>
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<DIV>You have proven how narrow minded you are by being outraged that I am the only person that you know that thinks that protest is a service to America. You would be surprises at how many people that you know that have told me privately that they agree with me, but asked me not to voice it online. They don't want me to stir-up people that become unreasonable when challenged and who's minds will never be changed. The fact that you do not think you know anyone outside your little bubble that believes the way I do probably has to do with the area you live in. I have been here since I was ten so I have lived with east Texas mean for most of my life. Most of the people around here are not interested in other people's ideas or freedoms. It never ceases to amaze me that so many people that clam that they stand for freedom do not embrace freedom of speech as one of their beliefs. If you were truly open minded you would not be so dismayed by other people's rights. </DIV>
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<DIV>I protested the war in the 60s and 70s because we were in an illegal war. During WWII the Allied forces signed an accord with Ho Chi Min that agreed that the West would not colonize Vietnam if it help during the war. Vietnam lived up to it's side of the bargain. The West did not. When the French grew tired of the battle, the U.S. saw a way to create billions for the rich war profiteers selling the weapons. The same thing happened in Iraq. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, yet our leaders saw a way to make lots of money for their rich friends and themselves, so in we went. It took resources away from the righteous war in Afghanistan and for domestic needs like education or the rebuilding of our inner-structure. It is what caused the recession we are in right now. On top of all that, Bush and Cheney have killed more Americans for profit in Iraq than died on 9/11. When evil leaders lead our children into slaughter in illegal wars, heroes take action to stop the murder. It is a righteous thing to do. Nothing against the military. It is the campaign that is unjust. Sorry that you do not agree.</DIV>
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<DIV>Joining the military does not make you a hero. The military has much more that it's share of assholes. McVeigh was military. Calley was military. Hinckley was military. Service above and beyond makes a hero. That does often include soldiers. I have always believed that preventing people from being killed at your own sacrifice is an act of heroism. That would include actions like the first gulf war when Iraq invaded a neighboring country. That would also include protester that are trying to stop illegal wars such as Vietnam and the second Iraq war. It is narrow minded to exclude anyone that is trying to save lives, standing up for their beliefs and trying to make the world a better place. There are so many of our freedoms and rights that we would not enjoy today had protester not put themselves in dangers way to win change. They are true heroes.</DIV>
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<DIV>Zorc explained to me yesterday afternoon that there is in fact an SCA award for people that have served in the military. I now see the reason that you were asking for what you did. I also find it bizarre that the SCA gives out awards for things that happen outside the SCA. Did this award pre-date the 9/11 nationalistic frenzy ? What dose the military have to do with the SCA ?? Could you please explain ?</DIV>
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<DIV>As for a public apology, you will never get it. I have every right to express my views. The fact that you do not think I do, again, proves that you are narrow minded. You could have let my little response to your post past without all of your crying and bitching. Honestly we have both come out of this looking bad. If you don't think so, you do live in a bubble. This country was founded on freedom. Even if the extreme right wing fascist take over I will continue to fight against unjust actions. I do not think that will happen in my lifetime as the extreme right is more and more looked upon as the lunatic fringe... except maybe in east Texas.</DIV>
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<DIV>I truly hope that we can get past this conflict and agree to disagree.</DIV>
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<DIV>Peace,</DIV>
<DIV>V NV</DIV>
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<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=mdowdy999@hotmail.com href="mailto:mdowdy999@hotmail.com">mike dowdy</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=byzytym@att.net href="mailto:byzytym@att.net">byzytym@att.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, October 11, 2009 1:01 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Ravensfort] need info</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>I will clue you in to my... pro-military post. The queen asked for this<BR>information at 3Q, oddly the crowns are pretty much... as you say pro<BR>military. There is an award they would like to give out, as have the last<BR>few crowns called the Sable Shield. There... is oddly not an award for<BR>protesting......oddly I think you are the only person I have ever met or<BR>that anyone we both know who we will ever meet that could say with a<BR>straight face that protesting was a service to the American people.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Now, I am going to say this, for you to call me narrow minded... is... at<BR>best amusing. That was a personal attack and where I come from is the last<BR>resort of one such as yourself to try and win a debate. You should take a<BR>good long look at yourself and understand that in any debate or forum a<BR>personal attack is unacceptable. I did not say.. you were .. ingnorant..<BR>stuipid.. narrow minded.. or retarded.. or that you should have debates<BR>with children your own age.<BR><BR><BR><BR>When one person can honestly look at another say they are narrow minded<BR>then is that first person not ignorant or uneducated to the political,<BR>social, philosophical, and religious background of the second person( is<BR>that not that what narrow minded'ness is?)? Do you know my political,<BR>social, philosophical, or relgous background? I am going out on a limb and<BR>going to say no. So at best you are misspoken and I am owed a public<BR>appology or... you are ignorant and undedicated to my background or reason<BR>for my task and am still owed a public apology.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Take care with your rhetoric and/or with whom you try to bait.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Michael<BR><BR><BR><BR>"If at first you dont succeed, excessive force is probably the answer"<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>From: byzytym@att.net<BR>To: mdowdy999@hotmail.com; ravensfort@lists.ansteorra.org<BR>Subject: Re: [Ravensfort] need info<BR>Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 03:12:53 -0500<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>I do not understand what your pro-military post has to do with the SCA in<BR>the first place.<BR>You are the one that started us down this road.<BR>As you and the moderators have stated, this debate ( as well as LD's<BR>personal insults ) should be taken off post.<BR>I look forward to our discussion.<BR><BR>Peace,<BR>V NV<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: mike dowdy<BR>To: ravensfort<BR>Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 9:46 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Ravensfort] need info<BR><BR>Unfortualy you have taken what I asked for and .. went down a road none of<BR>us should have. I aske for this information to givin to me off list and if<BR>you any other thoughts or information, then it should have been taken off<BR>list<BR><BR>I look forward to seeing you eye to eye as men and women do and speaking<BR>of this further.<BR><BR>Michael<BR><BR>"If at first you dont succeed, excessive force is probably the answer"<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>From: byzytym@att.net<BR>To: mdowdy999@hotmail.com<BR>Subject: Re: [Ravensfort] need info<BR>Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 09:36:05 -0500<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>We all have our definitions of hero.<BR>I guess that mine are not as narrow minded as your.<BR>Sorry you feel that way.<BR><BR>V NV<BR><BR>"When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail".<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: mike dowdy<BR>To: byzytym@att.net<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 10:31 PM<BR>Subject: RE: [Ravensfort] need info<BR><BR><BR>I fought for mine.. and I a great disdane for anyone who would live in the<BR>country and say what you have said.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Many men and women have died so you could live a good life. To protest is<BR>one thing, to disrespect those that have is another. I did not ask or did<BR>I want any information about protesting or protesters. I asked for<BR>information about heros and heros only.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Michael<BR><BR>"If at first you dont succeed, excessive force is probably the answer"<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>From: byzytym@att.net<BR>To: mdowdy999@hotmail.com; ravensfort@ansteorra.org<BR>Subject: Re: [Ravensfort] need info<BR>Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 07:30:45 -0500<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>I protested the war back in the 60s and 70s.<BR>That is a form of service to this country.<BR>If you love your freedoms, thank a protester.<BR><BR>Peace,<BR>V NV<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: mike dowdy<BR>To: ravensfort@ansteorra.org<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 10:45 PM<BR>Subject: [Ravensfort] need info<BR><BR>I would like the information on those that have served in the military in<BR>the Barony,<BR><BR>I know of only myself, the Baron Brian, Baron Keif, and Baron St. David.<BR><BR>If you would contact me off lyst with that information, if you want to<BR>included branch, years of service or.. theaters of action please do so.<BR><BR>Michael<BR><BR>"If at first you dont succeed, excessive force is probably the answer"<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Ravensfort mailing list<BR>Ravensfort@lists.ansteorra.org<BR>http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ravensfort-ansteorra.org<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.<BR>http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Ravensfort mailing list<BR>Ravensfort@lists.ansteorra.org<BR>http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ravensfort-ansteorra.org<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. 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