SC - ccMail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message

[ccMail SMTPLINK]

Message undeliverable at this time

 Original text follows 
 ----------------------------------------------
Received: from hud.gov by hudsmtpro03.hud.gov (SMTPLINK V2.11.01)
	; Wed, 09 Jul 97 15:11:19 EST
Return-Path: <sca-cooks-owner at eden.com>
Received: by hud.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA08667; Wed, 9 Jul 97 15:07:12 EDT
Received: from mail.santonio.eden.com(199.171.21.14) by hudgate via smap (V1.0mjr)
	id sma008576; Wed Jul  9 15:06:09 1997
Received: (majordom at localhost) by natasha.eden.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA11653 for sca-cooks-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:01:53 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from asa1.asan.com (asa1.asan.com [206.20.111.11]) by natasha.eden.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA11646 for <sca-cooks at eden.com>; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:01:52 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from ppp97.asan.com (ppp97.asan.com [206.20.111.97]) by asa1.asan.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ea318530 for <sca-cooks at eden.com>; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:01:44 -0400
Message-Id: <33C3E048.698B at asan.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 15:02:36 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: sca-cooks at eden.com
Subject: Re: SC - RECIPE CHALLENGE II
References: <199707091816.OAA17869 at abel.math.harvard.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-sca-cooks at eden.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: sca-cooks at eden.com

Mark Schuldenfrei wrote:

> "Myed wastel bred".  I'm not sure how we got to grated white bread... what
> is the meaning of Myed?  Wastrel bread might well mean stale, and frequently
> grated stale bread was specified.  But if I recall those combined recipe
> books, they often say "greted" bread when they mean it.  On the other hand,
> the "Stere it wel" part later probably helps confirm the idea.

I probably should have said "crumbled" rather than grated. The term
seems to cover both crumbling and mixing, according to Hieatt and
Butler's glossary in "Curye on Inglysche". I just used a word I figured
would denote reducing it to crumbs. "Wastel", believe it or not, is,
according to H & B, a cognate of the French word "gateau", and denotes
fine white bread, like manchets. I suspect wastels were larger than
manchets, but otherwise similar quality.
 
> I have NEVER understood the historical relationships between cloves,
> gillyflower, and so forth.  In this case, I suspect that since the source
> frequently uses the term "clove" unadorned, I'd use the flower.  But what
> flower?

Yes, the book frequently uses the term "cloves" alone, which is
presumably the spice. Sometimes other 14th-century sources use the term
"gilofre" alone, and this is ambiguous, especially when still other
sources, like Taillevent, refer to cloves de girofle (note the
transposed consonants) ground to a powder, in what is clearly a
reference to the spice. If the reference is to the flower, then it would
be the "clove-scented pink", a variety of gillyflower, related to the
carnation, I gather. My general feeling is that the term cloves, used
alone, is an abbreviation of cloves gilofre, and refers to the spice.
The term gilofre used alone is probably the spice, but the term
"girofle" might be the flower. It's pretty complicated, as you can see.
Also, when flowers are meant, the source seems to usually say "flowers
of..." or "leaves of..." Another aspect is that I understand that in
England, the growth season for gillyflowers is earlier than that for
cherries, so unless either one or the other is preserved, it would be
difficult.

Also, more often than not, pottages garnished with flowers are also
usually flavored with that flower. The previous recipe in the source is
for Rosye, both made and garnished with rose petals. I can see validity
to either claim.

Adamantius