SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #863

[Jeanne Stapleton]

Various comment-y type things:

> I had similar thoughts of children needing to eat the same
> food.....untiI had close friends with small children.  The they do
> tend to be fussy eaters and become unhappy and underfed when faced
> with 'odd' things.  
> 
I agree that some of it seems to be born into the child in question,
or develop without parental indulgence--I know that I had foods that 
I didn't care for, but still a great variety that I ate.

Some kids *are* fussy eaters; while it's great that parents do
the "eat what's set before you or go hungry" at home, at an
event a whiny, cranky, hungry child is no fun for anyone when
the answer might be as simple as getting a little food in the kid.

> We play this game and have set it up for OUR entertainment.  To
> present a feast of foods for the children's tastes takes little
> effort and just a small amount of putting our intensity toward
> authenticity in our pockets. I don't think I know ANY parents (for
> what value anecdotal evidence can carry) who would demand children
> eat only what the parents decide they should eat and when they
> should eat it.  If the child can be enticed into our world throught
> their own familiarities....we have won the war (amen brother Tsun
> Tsu.....contested ground and all).
> 
I agree.  Most of the lsits of foods that cooks here would consider
putting in the children's area *don't* deviate that strongly from
what's going on the feast table--I can see kids being happy with
platters of meatballs, cheese cubes, apple wedges and carrots.

[snip]


> Lamingtons are squares (usually cubes 2" each axis) of sponge cake
> with a soft chocolate icing covered in desiccated coconut. 
> Occasionally they are sliced in the middle and filled with mock
> cream.
> 
> If I could figure a way to send this kind of stuff through the mail,
> I'd send some care packages - honest !!
> 
> Now what *I* would like to try is a legendary American Twinkie. 
> Just so I can say I've had one .....
> 
I always found lamingtons to be very sweet for my tastes...but 
I'm nuts about pavlova.  :-)

On the Twinkie/Hostess-type cake front:  my penchants are
Tiger Tails (a variation of the basic Twinkie with raspberry jam
stripes) or Dolly Madison raspberry iced cakes--sponge cake,
raspberry jam exterior, dried coconut.


> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:01:47 EDT
> From: Varju at aol.com
> Subject: Re: Small Children & recognizable food (was  Re: SC - Kids
> andfeasts)
> 
> In a message dated 98-08-05 17:40:41 EDT, you write:
> 
> << I had similar thoughts of children needing to eat the same
> food.....untiI
>  had close friends with small children.  The they do tend to be
>  fussy eaters and become unhappy and underfed when faced with 'odd'
>  things. >>
> 
> I still believe what my mother and grandmother always said, that a
> child is a fussy eater only if you let them get away with it.  This
> goes for cats too, but that's another story. . .
> 
Well, I think it depends on the child and parent in question...my
mother was overly fretful about my being "underweight" as a child.
(I know, it seems impossible, given my current Reubenesque figure
and the American preoccupation with weight, but I think part of
it was that dwarvism ran in a distant branch of the family and she
was always afraid I wasn't going to grow (and in point of fact, I am
the shortest person in my living extended family, but I'm still 
5'3".)  She had a panic whenever I went more than one meal
without finishing it.  She offered ice cream and sherbet as dessert
rewards and while sometimes sufficient to get me to finishw aht
were probably overlarge servings of food for a child, I wasn't
that concerned about getting sweets every night, so about every
other meal I didn't finish.  One time when I was quite small, I
realy wanted the strawberries that were going on strawberry
shortcake; Mom understandably said, "not until you finish your
dinner". I didn't whine or scream, I just went on a two-day hunger
strike and didn't eat a thing.

Now, while not 100% omnivorous, I'll try anything.  I honestly don't 
understand adults who continue to allow themselves to be "picky
eaters" and won't at leat try new things.

> I've always wondered why it is an automatic reaction here in the US
> to give a child that is a fussy eater "familiar" food, where an
> adult is supposed to be able to adapt or change their tastes. 

I don't wonder so much about "familiar" food as about foods that
are considered "acceptable" for children.  I would never in a million
years give a child hot dogs as a staple.

And if you're talking about SCA feasts specifically (although I read
your remark as more general), your feast is not the proper time to
try to convert a kid from his/her "usual fare" to adventurous
eating unless it's the kid's idea.

And many adults *don't* change or adapt their tastes.
They seem to regard their "pickiness" as a sign of a refined taste
rather than an adaptive disorder.

I can understand allergies, intolerances, sensitivities or 
indigestion as reasons to avoid certain foods *once you're
tried them*.  I've womanfully tried chicken livers in no mean
number of ways.  The only way I can handle them at all is in
Armand de Montfort-Lyons' homemade pate (of the Barony
of Stormhold :-)).  But note that I tried his pate at the ripe
old age of 31 and didn't automatically assume that it would
suck because every other way I'd had chicken livers (to me)
sucked.

I can't see convincing a five-year-old of this, especially in a
setting outside the home.

> Wouldn't it be easier to have children eat the same things adults do
> to make them more accepting of new tastes?
> 
Probably, but once again that's a family decision.

Interestingly, I've noted parents who fret about their children's
"pickiness"--and then at family dinners, watched those same
adults refuse to eat something under done, overdone, too spicy,
with crusts on it.  Mixed signals, anyone?


> I believe in teaching children early that being "adventerous" can be
> fun. I can't remember how many times I have said to my 3 nieces that
> it doesn't hurt to try it once. If you don't like it, fine, but
> don't make that decision before you try it. After banging this into
> their heads for several years I am proud to say that they actually
> look forward to feast and trying new things edible. I also like to
> take them shopping and then they can really pick and choose from all
> the "weird" stuff out there. Let them be the master of their
> collective culinary destiny. I think, and I agree with Noemi's
> grandmother, that if a kid is fussy, they must of learned it
> somewhere.
> 
This is a great approach, and I love to see parents and other
relatives encourage it.


> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 20:06:19 -0400
> From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
> Subject: Re: SC - Children's feasts
> 
> Jeanne Stapleton wrote:
> 
> > I would think a wise parent would be prepared with snacks,
> > etc., knowing their own child better; but I can also see the
> > concern about not letting the child "ruin their dinner" and
> > thereby waste food and the money paid for the feast ticket.
> > I'm not in favor of waste, and I'm in favor of teaching kids
> > "waste not, want not" early.
> 
> Often I've been in a situation where my kid is ravenous, and
> everyone is seated, and the first course just doesn't arrive in any
> kind of a timely fashion. The dried krajana sausage (kind of like
> commercial kielbasa but made from actual meat, like chunks of ham in
> a sausage casing) comes out, along with whatever cheese, olives,
> fruit, etc., are left over from our lunch basket. Usually a lunch is
> available at local events, but just to be on the safe side, we
> usually pack a basket of reserve supplies. It's saved lives on
> occasion, but I've noticed glares of considerable envy from adults
> in the vicinity when we are forced to get it out.
> 
I can understand that.  :-)  Sounds like you keep prepared, which is
wise.

> I seem to recall my son eating five of those little rib lamb chops
> at around age five or six months...last night he was quite enthused
> over the calamari fritte with spicy tomato sauce, and at this very
> moment, as I write this, he's finishing up some iron steak with
> onions and black mushrooms in oyster sauce, over rice, with a side
> of dry-sauteed baby bok tsoy. He's not your average seven-year-old,
> but I'm glad to hear he's not alone in his unusual diet.
> 
Kew-ell.  He should have an exciting gastronomic life.  I didn't
know what any of those tings *were* at age seven.

> > It isn't possible to please everyone, and I don't think the point is
> > even to try,but to try to come up with a reasonable approach
> > that has some humanity involved.  To me, the approach of offering
> > a selection of the more familiar foods straight from the
> > feast kettles--meatballs, plain rice, bread, beef stew, carrot-based
> > organisms--for children at an earlier hour than the main feast, at a
> > time which is *not* subject to whatever may be transpiring in court
> > at the time, seems like the soundest approach.
> 
> Yeah, the last is a good point, one I tried to make but may have
> left unstressed: it's one thing to expect adults, who are in this
> organization voluntarily, to sit through courts and other delays
> before being fed. Children, who are often at the event primarily so
> that their parents can attend, are another story, and expecting them
> to wait an unknown time upon the vagaries of courts and the whims of
> the muckety-mucks is a little unfair.
> 
> At the moment we in the East are lucky: our current King and Queen
> have two small children, so there's very little of that nonsense in
> this reign.
> 
Best laid plans and all...and even the best behaved children can
only go so far if they don't get dinner within a reasonable time.

> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 20:13:49 -0400
> From: Brenna <sunnie at exis.net>
> Subject: Re: SC - Kids and feasts
> 
> > - HOWEVER, I would utterly disagree with serving them hotdogs
> > or hamburgers.  There is so much fun period food you can serve to kids
> > which they just love; hedgehogs for example, and just about any subtelty
> > you can think of will go down a treat.
> >
> 
> As the mother of a 4 year old girl and aunt to a 2 year old and 6
> year old, you're obviously thinking of the 6 year old.  Put a
> subtelty in front of the other two and you get anything from a
> "yuck" to a scream to something thrown across the room.  Serving the
> more innocuous things from feast mixed with readily identified kid
> foods is the way to go.  Having done both, kids under 6, or even 15
> in the really picky ones, won't touch an unfamiliar food or a
> familiar food prepared other than the usual way.
> 
Brenna's right--some kids can react quite loudly and violently to
weird food.  Some will think it's cool.  The thing is with kids,
even their *parents* can't always predict their reactions 100%.
Kids aren't little blank slates to be written on, and some of their
responses seem to come from within, or to odd bits of stimuli
they've picked up along the way.

I hated raisins as a small child and I'm none too fond of them now.
Why is that?  They're sweet, they're usually given to kids as a
treat...my only response is that they've always tasted really...
"organic" was the word I always used, like crushed flies or
something.  It wasn't my family denying me raisins!


> melc2newton at juno.com wrote:
> 
> > Cooks,
> > The consensus seems to be that the children should sit with Parents and
> > eat, What if  the parents were given a choice to pay full price or a
> > discounted price for a childrens only menu. Publishing same at Troll and
> > then let the parents decide.
> 
> This is what loses me!  In Atalntia, a child 6-12 is a child rate no
> matter what they eat.  Under 6 are guests of the Barony.  We don't
> charge "full price" for a child under 13 EVER that I have ever heard
> of.  The children eat what they wish

The theory here is that the kids eatless than the adults, and in the
aggregate that appeas to be true.  I think 6-12 should pay half price
no matter what they're eating; under 6 free.

Berengaria
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