medieval cooking setup...was: Re: SC - Re: seeking recipes (O utdoor Feast)

[Yeldham, Caroline S]

	Dear All

> Hi all from Anne-Marie
> ok, heres the deal. We're doing 15th century re-creation. Not the SCA way
> of picking bits of this and that from all over, but trying really really
> hard to stick to 1470 Franco Flemish/Bruges. While we play in the SCA now,
> our goal is to get up to speed so we can play with the other non-SCA 15th
> century re-enactment societies.
> 
	Is this in the States?  There's the Red Company I've heard of on the
hist-renact list (Anne-Marie, if you don't know it you might be interested,
mostly UK and Europe re-enactment people, topic - guess what!).  Good luck -
its hard work, but at least you've got a well documented period/place!  Just
don't ask me about women's headgear for England in that period!  


	Have a look at (if you haven't already) 'Norwich Households'
Medieval and post-medieval finds from Norwich Survey excavations 1971-78'
by Sue Margeson ISBN  0 9520695 0 4  Pub. The Norwich Survey/Norfolk Museums
Service.  some good stuff, (even if it is English) including hearth
furniture, racks and hooks (1507 deposits).  It includes a drawing taken
from 'Tractabus de herbis', 15th century, of a woman frying bread in a
long-handled saucepan on a tripod (there is someone in England making copies
of that type of tripod).

> Now, with that background...
> > 
> I'm having a hard time finding fry pan things. At least not the short
> handled fry pans that I have in my kitchen. The pictures all show VERY
> long
> handled things (almost looking like 18th century bedwarmers), or else a
> cauldron shaped pot with a long handle that the Museums call "a skillet".
> Anyone who can point me to PRIMARY SOURCE material that shows your
> standard
> short handled fry pan?
> 
	I'd agree with you here - they should be long-handled, I can't think
of a picture showing a short-handled one.  However, the short-handled ones
(cast-iron, plain) are fairly easy to get hold of (esp in France), whereas
I've never seen a long-handled one, so, I'm afraid I compromise here until I
find someone who makes them and I've got the money!  

	We all make compromises - most of the metal cooking vessels -
cauldrons, skillets etc, should be copper or bronze in this period (they
were casting iron, but it was difficult and seems to have been saved for
more important purposes, like guns).  However, there are potential problems
with metal contamination of food cooked in these metals, so at the moment we
keep our bronze cauldron for water heating and continue to use the cast-iron
ones.
	 
>  I have a theory that pot holders arent period cuz
> you didnt need them. Long handles and manipulating cauldrons by the chain
> means you dont need them?
> 
	I use a pot cloth (heavy weight linen).  Even if they are not
particularly hot, there are plenty of things that are, like pottery pots in
the fire, other bits of cauldrons, and everything gets dirty/greasy/smoky.
Since washing hands etc is difficult in context, I try to keep them
reasonably clean!


> I am told (and my looking at pictures supports this) that the tripod is
> not
> how 15th century folks held pots. 
> 
	See quote above (its 15th century but it could be Italian).  There
are plenty of illos of round pot supports with legs, into which cauldrons
are slotted - if you want to see an empty one have a look at Scappi's illos
(late 16th Italian, but the best illos for how to set a kitchen up I know
of).  The Penguin edition of Elizabeth David's Italian Cooking has good
versions of it.

> > 
> > 
> I have seen several pictures of "tremmels" in period illustrations, as
> well
> as example in catelogs of medieval kitchen toys. Ditto chains and hooks,
> so
> we're set there :)
> 
	Not sure what you mean by a 'tremmel'?  

> Again, as always, I love to have myself proved wrong, but really need to
> see the primary source documentation to belive it (I'm such a sceptic...I
> take little for granted).
> 
	That's the way to think!  Join the club.

	Caroline
	The White Company/Berkeley Household

	BTW I never bother to bake unless we have someone on site who has
set up a brick or clay oven and is running it as a baker.  We buy the bread
in from a baker.  Sometimes I regret the dishes I'm ruling out, but I've
found other techniques too time consuming (even modern ovens or microwaves -
if you really like I'll tell you the story of the time I called out half
Worcester's fire brigade!) - I'd rather concentrate on the other dishes.
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