SC - Re: lemon substitute

[Christina van Tets]

On the question of 'Cornish' pasties, I sent this to Lady Lyddy Arundel an Gurnows, our resident Cornish expert and secretary of the Arizona Cornish Society.  Here is the original posts:

> > At 2:37 PM -0600 3/1/98, Tim Allison wrote:
> > >You mention making pasties with ground beef instead of mushroom. In what
> > >way do these differ from the traditional Cornish pasty-which I certainly
> > >thought was period?
> > >Caroline
> > >
> > > Carol Mitchell
> >
> > 1. What are the defining characteristics of the "traditional Cornish
> > pasty?" If it is simply some filling contained in some crust, that is
> > certainly period--but I think of it as more narrowly defined than that. If,  for example, the definition includes potatoes in the filling, then it cannot be earlier than Columbus and is quite likely to be out of our period entirely.
> >
> > 2. What is your reason for thinking it is period?
> >
> > David/Cariadoc
> > http://www.best.com/~ddfr/
> **********************************

and Lady Lyddy's reply:

> When did Columbus go out of period???
>
> I can give you the pasty receipes in period if they want them but they
> aren't Cornish receipes.
>
> More than you ever wanted to know about pasties:
>
> The "traditional" Cornish Pasty of steak, suit, Swedes, onion and potato
> is late period but that filling would only appear when such dream food
> was available.
>
>   The word pasty is period because it was a Roman invention.  I have
> period receipes titled pasties. Pastry was called paste, something
> wrapped (usually a whole bird) in paste was called a "pasty" .
>   In 1300, pasties are mentioned in Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales, The
> Cook’s Tale.  “All of pasties be the walls of flesh, of fish, and rich
> meat.”  And it appears the cook was a rogue who reheated his pasties and
> pies.  But though this proves the term to be in use, there is nothing in
> the wording to indicate that these were of the Cornish variety.
>
>  In July 1537, one John Hussee sent to Queen Jane Seymour “three pasties
> of the red deer, caused to be baked without lard.  “I trust this pasty
> reached (thee) in better condition than a pie of partridge sent
> before.”  History assures us that the pasty did her no great harm even
> though, according to a researcher, she was in France at the time.  One
> could more easily conclude that it was a pasty that was sent, for no
> other dish was so notoriously famous for its durability.
>
>
>  If the idea of wrapping things in pastry came with the Romans, then it
> is most likely that that is when the Cornish began the habit because
> people looked for ways of adding grain to their sad diets.  In the case
> of Cornwall, this pastry was usually barley pastry and filled with
> pilchards, eel, other fish and whatever else presented itself and not
> much of that.
> >
> The Cornish Pasty of history is more of a particular design than of
> content.  Barley pastry rolled out round, filled with whatever was at
> hand, folded in half and sealed with a fancy thick roll that went the
> length of it.
>   The dough was so hard, it was practically inedible. The men carried
> them in their shirts! Jokes were made of how many fathomes they could be
> dropped in the mine before breaking. But function was the key here. They
> were portable lunch boxes for the miners and the farmers.
>
> Mining has been going on in Cornwall since before the Celts in 1000 BC.
> The tin ore  being mined contained arsnic, the roll provides a handle
> which was then thrown away to the mine rats. If they began taking
> pasties of that design into the mines when they went underground in
> 1500, then its not too big a step to presume that they weren't invented
> over night.
>
> Lady Lyddy Arundel an Gurnows
> Arizona Cornish
> =========================



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