SC - New person to list

[Alderton, Philippa]

Wearily, another swipe at explaining my usage of "grey area" in the
context of SCA documentation:

> > > <snip>
> > > > O.K., so even the Spanish manuscript would be in the
> > > > "grey area" as far as even the A&S documentation 
> > > > standards of several years ago are concerned. 

SCA usage in the past utilized this description for documentation
drawing upon (printed) sources published after 1600CE and prior to
1650CE. As more and more amateur research has been done, and more of
the professional research become generally available, there has been
less acceptance of printings from this 50-year frame for purposes of
competition-grade documentation. (e.g., a secondary source in 1609CE
becomes at best a tertiary source for pre-1601CE).

Remember, SCA-usage includes [emphatically] anything prior to 1601CE
as being within our period of interest. There is growing debate and
uncertainty in many minds as to establishing a start-point on the
other end of the scale, while many SCA text descriptions over the
last thirty-odd years use A.D.600 to A.D.1600. There were a number
of documents in the SCA's history that specified the cut-off as 1650
for a variety of reasons, including at least one from a high enough
level to confuse the issue for many years.

Unless/until the SCA organization is re-defined, I'm personally wont
to keep the "pre-17th century description", deliberately avoid an
arbitrary start date, AND use published works and artifacts from the
1601-1650 "SCA documentational grey area" as starting-points for
additional research to be included in bibliographies or copiously
described as to date and reason for inclusion. (Hey, as an SCA bard
trying to add more "period" performance pieces, I have to use oral
tradition as often as print or re-printed manuscript often enough as
it is ...)

- ---"Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm interested in Brian saying 1400 to 1460.
> I've always been taught, and most of my reference books, indicate 
> an ending somewhere around the 1480s/1490s, with a practical
> cut-off point being 1500 if nothing else supercedes it. 

For the sake of arguments, I have also seen scholarly claims that
support a view that the Middle Ages did not truly end until Russia
ended serfdom in the 19th century. I do not support such claims
myself.

> I'd agree with him about the chocolate tho ...
 
 Caroline, I've no doubt that chocolate for Europeans is firmly a
matter of the latter Rennaisance at best. My original post was to a
list followed almost exclusively by SCA-folk, whereas sca-cooks has
drawn a much wider following -- no pun intended whatsoever!
 
> > From:	Brian Matthews [SMTP:wilthain at worldnet.att.net]
> > Nope  , not even grey-area . Scholarly middle ages end between
> > 1400 & 1460 AD (depending on specific area ) SCA middle ages
> > at 1600 AD ( well 1601 if you take the pre-17th century

Not "SCA middle ages".  More appropriate phrasing "SCA period of
study, including the Dark Ages, Middle Ages, and Rennaisance".

To get really retentive, as more than enough SCA authenticity mavens
seem to do, include descriptive language specifying degree of
contact with Europe prior to a given date.

> > description literally ) However it would be interesting to
> > know the original source , I would venture to guess it was
> > around a lot longer and didn't start its european life as
> > candy .

The follow-on post to be uploaded this evening gives a more complete
timeline. Beyond the contents of that post, I note a memory that
cocoa beans have been found as apparent grave goods in Central
American sites dated several hundred years prior to the 1492CE
Columbus expedition. (in re: "used as a medium of exchange",
perhaps...)

===
Adios -- Amra / Pax ... Kihe / TTFN -- Mike
(al-Sayyid) Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra  /
Kihe Blackeagle (the Dreamsinger Bard) / 
Mike C. Baker: My opinions are my own -- no one else would want them!
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8661
Alt. e-mail: kihe at rocketmail.com,KiheBard at aol.com,MikeCBaker at aol.com

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