SC - Summertime Cerulean Blue Sauce

[Decker, Terry D.]

> I assume black raspberries are structurally similar to red raspberries?
> When mostly ripe, they can be slipped off a sort of cone attached to the
> stem, leaving no stem or leaf structure attached to the fruit pulp
> portion?
> 
> If so, those aren't the blackberries I see in the markets on the East
> Coast of the U.S.. These are large, averaging an inch or so long, come
> attached to stem structure like a mulberry, with a "core" that is more
> or less an integral part of the berry. I've seen them in both red and
> dark blue forms; it's _possible_ red ones are unripe blue ones, I
> suppose. I assume wild ones would be smaller. 
>  
To my knowledge, raspberries and blackberries, being closely related have
the cone structure you describe for the stem.  The fruits have well rounded
drupelets.  However, there are a large number of hybrids.  I haven't seen
any blackberries such as you describe, but they are breeding thornless
brambles, so why not a larger fruit with less stem wastage.  If you find out
more, please let me know.

> > Rubus idaeus, which is definitely a red raspberry, is the only European
> > member of this group.  The American variant is R. idaeus var. strigosus.
>  
> > The primary species known as blackberries are R. occidentalis (AKA
> blackcap
> > or thimbleberry) and R. leucodeamis (AKA western black raspberry).
>  
> > Right now, I'm wondering if the blackberry of the recipe may not be a
> black
> > currant.
> 
> I suppose that's possible, but even if the "blackberry" of modern
> English-speaking North America _is_ actually a raspberry, it doesn't
> necessarily follow that the blackberry referred to in an Italian
> renaissance recipe is anything but a blackberry, does it? I'm not sure I
> understand the reasoning here. Does the fact (which my own experience,
> locally, disputes) that Americans call raspberries blackberries really
> prove there's been some kind of translator's error, with black currants
> seeming more likely?
>   
> Unless I'm vastly mistaken, you don't seem to be saying there is no
> European version of a true blackberry. Or is that what you're saying?
> Confused. At a loss. Please advise.
> 
> Adamantius
> -- 
> Phil & Susan Troy
> 
Pardon me, I often tend to be incoherent until after the second cup of
coffee, and I was only into the first when I wrote this.

The species of Rubus which we call blackberries do not appear to have any
European counterparts.  Several sources say Rubus ideaus, which is
definitely a red raspberry, is the only native, berrying species of Rubus in
Europe.  If this is the case, then what the author of the recipe is calling
a blackberry is not what we call a blackberry.  There is a large probability
these statements are correct, and we do not know what black berry the author
of the recipe is calling a blackberry.

The one drawback to these comments about genus Rubus is a taxonomic
description of Rubus caesius (dewberry) from Finland in 1972.  The plant was
found growing wild and created a botanical puzzle.  From the little I could
find, no decision has been made as to whether it represents an imported or a
native, but previously unreported, species. 

The comment about black currants is purely speculative and whimsical.  If
raisins of Corinth (genus Vitis) were currants, what did they call currants
(genus Ribes)?

There.  Hopefully, that is clearer and wittier.

Bear
============================================================================

To be removed from the SCA-Cooks mailing list, please send a message to
Majordomo at Ansteorra.ORG with the message body of "unsubscribe SCA-Cooks".

============================================================================