SC - Turkish Breakfast - Suggestions Anyone?

[ana l. valdes]

I am very grateful to yours and Lord Ras comments and helpfullness.
Well, I am going to try to specify (in English, don´t forget I speak
habitually two other languages, as exotic as Spanish and Swedish, maybe
some misstunderstanding can come from my bad Engly syntax) the
difficulties for me and other people who are not "scholars", in judge
the accuracy and the correctness of sources.
I have not any possibility to evaluate or compare secondary sources with
eath other and says who are right. The only thing I can do is to
translate, submit and wait for someone of you, eminent scholars, to say
:"Eureka, this was a interesting recipe or a interesting topic".
This is, for me, the main difference between an amateur and a scholar.
I, an amateur, can buy and collect books, but not have a tool to read
the books and compare them with their sources.
In this book in Spanish I quotated, with a recipe for Hummus from Yemen,
the author doesn´t use footnotes (mainly used in academical fields),
without tells about the bibliography in general terms, in the last pages
of the book.
By the way, about your questions about texts on Turkish Cooking, I am
using as "biblioghaphy" a book called "Istambul la Magnifique",
published by editorial Laffont in 1991, and written by Artun et Beyhan
Unsal.
They quotate several texts you probably already now: "Turkiye`nin Dört
Yili, 1552-1556", a Spanish manuscript from the 16th-century, translated
to Turkish by A. Kurutlouglou and "Tûrk Yemekleri" from the 18th
century.
Regards
Ana L. Valdés
 

david friedman skrev:
> 
> At 11:20 AM +0200 7/5/99, ana l. valdes wrote:
> >Sorry to disagree with you. My sources are "Classic Turkish Cooking", by
> >Ghillie Basan and "Classical Turkish Cooking", by Ayla Algar. They have
> >recipes for hummus and other chickpeas dishes, as manti and leblebi.
> 
> "Classic" doesnt' imply "pre-1600." Do they have period sources for those
> recipes? If not, what reason do you have to assume they are period, rather
> than (say) 18th century? If they do cite period sources, perhaps you could
> post them; I don't know of any pre-1600 Turkish cookbooks, and if there is
> one I could add it to my list of cookbooks looking for translators.
> 
> One way of checking just what the authors mean by "classic" (assuming they
> don't specify it in detail) is to look for New World ingredients--tomatoes,
> potatoes, capsicum peppers, etc. If they give recipes including such, that
> is evidence that their definition of classic includes stuff later than our
> definition of period.
> 
> Incidentally, the argument is not over the use of chickpeas--they are
> reasonably common in period Islamic cooking. The question is whether they
> were used to make Hummus bi Tahini--for which, so far as I know, there are
> no surviving period recipes.
> 
> (from another post)
> 
> >PS: By the way I find natural the Romans, the Greeks and the Arabs,
> >Turks, Perses and Egyptians, people which shared the same environement,
> >the Mediterranean, use the food in similar ways and influated each
> >other. Honey and carrots should be a common recipe for the whole
> >Mediterranean area.
> 
> Maybe, maybe not. Greek cooking, Italian cooking, Spanish cooking, and
> North African cooking at present are all rather different, although they
> are all on the Mediterranean. Persia isn't on the Mediterranean. I don't
> think you can jump from the use of a recipe in Rome in 300 A.D. to the
> conclusion that the same recipe was used in Persia in (say) 1300.
> 
> And from a third post:
> 
> >I en bok av L. Benavides Barajas, called "Kindoms of Taifa, Nord Africa,
> >Jews, Mores and Mudejares" I find a recipe to humus taken from Yemen,
> >but widespread in the whole area. In this recipe they used chickpeas and
> >sesame seeds.
> 
> Taken from Yemen when? I don't know of any period cookbooks from Yemen--do
> they suggest that they do?
> 
> >He quotates "Kitab al Tabib fi-Magabrid wasal-Andalus" and "Ibn Razin
> >al-Tujibi", by Fadhalar Al-Hiwan.
> 
> What are the dates of those sources? Is what he quotes a recipe for hummus
> bi tahini, or a reference to hummus (identified how?), or what?
> 
> and a fourth post:
> 
> > As
> >I said before, if you are not a sholar comparing manuscripts and corpus
> >its very difficult to judge their accuracy.
> 
> There are two separate questions here:
> 
> 1. Do your secondary sources say that the recipes they give are pre-1600?
> So far, it sounds as though they simply describe them as classical, with no
> dates given. So the issue isn't one of whether the sources are accurate but
> of what they say.
> 
> 2. Suppose the source did say that a particular recipe was (say) 13th
> century. The first step is simply to determine, from the source, how they
> know--what do they cite? If the source says "this recipe is found in the
> 13th century collection  compiled by al-Baghdadi and translated by
> Arberry," with suitable footnote, then you have good reason to believe they
> have a period source. The remaining issue is to determine whether their
> worked out recipe corresponds accurately to al-Baghdadi's original--and
> only at that point do you need access to the source. My own rule is to be
> suspicious of any secondary source that gives a worked out recipe without
> also giving the original it is based on--precisely because if they don't
> give the original, it is hard to check whether the two recipes really
> correspond.
> 
> One further point ...  . Even if the secondary source gives a worked out
> recipe and cites a source, you have to make sure the author is claiming
> that that worked out recipe corresponds to the recipe in the source.
> Claudia Roden, for example, in her middle eastern cookbook, mentions that
> Rishta has been made for a long time, gives a rishta recipe, and cites the
> rishta recipe in al Baghdadi. But she doesn't say that they are the
> same--and they aren't. She is giving a modern recipe for the dish, and
> citing the old recipe as evidence that a version of the dish existed in the
> 13th century--but not that it was the same as the modern version.
> 
> David/Cariadoc
> http://www.best.com/~ddfr/
> 
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