SC - Fw: Re: - Celery - LONG POST

Tue May 11 20:46:04 PDT 1999

Ok, yes, I have been playing the middle-man here and cross posting to the
Herb List.  I didn't *mean* to cause trouble, really!  But, with this
posting, I think everybody's on the same page here, and there is some
interesting info here.  
	Christianna
- --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: RAISYA at aol.com
To: troy at asan.com
Cc: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:22:44 EDT

G. Tacitus Adamantius,

I'm sorry, I thought Christianna was asking only for her own info, and I
was working on the assumption of existing knowledge on her part.  I'd
have given a more complete response if I'd realized.  So here goes:

(Christianna - please feel free to pass this on to the cooks' list, I'm
not 
subscribed.  Since his post wasn't cross-posted to the herbalist, this
answer would just confuse things there.)

In the 9th century, Walahfrid Strabo wrote a collection of poems on his 
garden called HORTULUS, based on his personal experience.  (I assume
Platina did not raise bears?)  Strabo was very knowledgeable about
gardening and does not include gardening superstition.  He was part of
the Imperial court of Charlemagne's son, Emperor Louis the Pious at
Aachen Germany, and later abbot of Reichenau monastery in Switzerland.  I
think that puts him in the mainstream of the most influential culture in
western Europe of that period.  
The St. Gall plan was an early 9th century monastery plan, also within
the Carolingian culture.  Celery appears in Charlemagne's CAPITULARE DE
VILLIS (ca. 800 AD), a list of crops to be grown on imperial estates.

True, even though this is a mainstream culture, it doesn't prove anything
for other times and places, but I don't think these can be dismissed as
an aberration or exception either.  The CAPITULARE had a heavy influence
on those areas of Europe for centuries, and portions of at least 4
different copies of the HORTULUS survive.  I can also point to the
TACUINUM SANITATIS, 14th century Italian, which states:

"Pliny writes of the approval celery has always had when its "stalks are 
swimming in broth."  It is very pleasing in condiments:  By itself, it 
provides only modest nourishment which, nevertheless, because of its hot
and dry nature, is suited to the winter, no less than to old people and
to those with cold temperaments.  Choose ortolanum, celery you have
carefully grown in the garden and which is also attractive to look at. 
Its principal benefit is that it opens the body's obstructions.  Serve
celery with lettuce to prevent it from causing headaches.  The pagans
offered it up as food for the dead"  
(from the FOUR SEASONS OF THE HOUSE OF CERRUTI translation).

If you aren't familiar with it, the TACUINUM SANITATIS was pretty well
known and is based on a philosophy of food and health that persisted over
hundreds of years in much of Europe.  Celery is recommended as a
healthful food, but so are dozens of others, much like we might recommend
lots of oranges for the vitamin C.

I'm a gardener, my experience with period cookbooks is mostly searching
for uses of vegetables, fruits and herbs.  If celery was used in soups, 
condiments and salads, I believe there are very few written salad recipes

before the Rennaissance, for example.  I had, BTW, understood from some
cooks that cabbage was not limited mostly to the poor in period and was a
common vegetable, correct me if I'm wrong.

Evidence of omission has to be treated cautiously.  For example, I'd
noticed that I had never found a clear period mention of celery by
English gardeners. The post I saw from the cook's list, though, gives me
concrete evidence to the contrary, leaving me with the curious question
of why there aren't growing instructions for a vegetable that's
notoriously tricky to grow.  Another example of the problems of omission,
I've never seen a recipe for skirrets, which was quite common.  But it
was a "poor man's" food, a perennial, multiplying root vegetable.

I appreciate that you qualified your generalization.  And yes, my
statement was pretty brief and generalized, because I misunderstood who I
was answering.  But I feel that the concrete evidence supports that
celery was probably grown and eaten throughout most of the period at
least in northern and central and possibly southern Europe.  My sources
are mainstream rather than obscure exceptions.  If you do have concrete
evidence, not just the evidence of omission, I'd be very glad to see it
so I can correct the information I've been teaching.  I suspect part of
the difficulty is the vague line between food and medicine.  But the
TACUINUM encouraged a healthy lifestyle, ALL period foods were ascribed
health effects, good and bad.  
Considering celery primarily medicinal from this philosophy would be like

considering whole wheat bread primarily medicinal because someone eats it
to increase dietary fiber.

I'd love to see what could come out of a joint project, combining the 
knowledge, experience and research of cooks, gardeners, and herbalists. 
I suspect we all hold "pieces of the puzzle" that the others are looking
for.

BTW, Walahfrid Strabo was "squint-eyed", and he didn't connect celery to 
eyesight.

This is the info I can put together quickly, I hope it clears up my
rather 
brief original post.  I apologize if this is a little formal, but you had
a 
serious concern based on what sounds like sincere research, and I felt
you deserved a serious explanation of my disagreement.  Anything else,
please attribute to not much sleep because of a sick family member.

Raisya Khorivovna
OL
Shire of the Shadowlands, Ansteorra
Raisya at aol.com

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