SC - Spice grinders
Mike C. Baker
kihe at ticnet.com
Thu Sep 2 06:03:08 PDT 1999
Good Duke Cariadoc
Apparently the point of my message was missed and people have generally
focused on some of my extreme examples. Sometimes for fun. For briery, I
will repeat. Play nice. Don't be insulted if someone disagrees with you. I
believe that some good gentle was upset about what they believe someone
thought of their idea about dough. Some people seem to nit pit. Some tend
to be generalist. I tend to learn from the differing view points. My
examples were only meant to be that, of differing views. Hopefully we would
laugh as I gave my speech upon my oop soap box.
In a message dated 9/2/99 12:33:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ddfr at best.com
writes:
<< >Some of us, are looking for period like dishes regardless of place and
time.
>Such as I want to make beans and franks. Let see it any of these
ingredients
>were ever used within our period at all. They do not even have to be the
same
>place or time. Then we can make the dish.
In what sense is this "period like?" I would have said that you are
describing someone who wants to cook a particular dish, does not care if it
is period, but believes he has some obligation to fudge up an argument
connecting it to something period. Except for the final part, that is a
perfectly reasonable activity--different people have different priorities,
and for some people making period food isn't one of them. At Pennsic, for
example, none of the commercial food services make any attempt at period
food, or pretend to, and my impression is that the great majority of what
people cook for themselves is ordinary modern food. The real problem with
what you are describing is that, because people think they have to pretend
that what they are doing is period when it isn't, they end up spreading
false historical information.
Yes, I agree with you that it would be spreading false information. There
are SCA cooks out their that gave me that view over the years. I do not
agree with them. A lot more friendly education is necessary to correct this.
Remember, there are a lot of SCA type people whom only play at being
historical or at least do so when it is convient to do so.
>Some of us, are trying to be accurate, but lack the knowledge yet to be
>reasonably accurate.
A problem that this list exists in part to solve.
And it is doing a good job. In my discussion of and off the list with some
of the known world cooks I have learned a lot. I am still trying to get the
rest of our shire's cooking guild to subscribe. They seem to like me
digesting it for them.
>Some of us, are trying to make period dishes that for practical reasons,
>tasting good must be first consideration. I.E. having an encampment or feast
>spitting out the food despite the claims from the kitchen, "Poisoning is
>period."
Except that nobody who does period cooking makes that claim in that
context. If the food tastes bad, that is evidence that you are doing
something wrong.
Sorry, the poisoning was meant to be a joke. I have known feastacrates whom
believed they were very period and the food was not edible to the masses. In
part because tastes of eaters was very narrow. Have you ever noticed there
are a lot of Mickey D bags left about by fighters because they have had bad
experience with those arts and science types whom think they can cook.
Implicit in your argument is the assumption that if you make the food
authentically, it will taste bad--which is contrary to the experience, so
far as I can tell, of every cook in the SCA who has actually done
substantial amounts of period cooking.
Again, We whom cook know this to be false. Our shire is known for very good
food. I make and many others do in our new barony of fire oaks very good
food. Infact for us, its usually a highlight of an event. Bur remember
tastes are different. I like powder Forte. My lady hides it when I cook.
Vinegar's are oft used. Some do not like vinegar. Some do not like parsnips.
Some do not like salads. Especially one with all these strange herbs in them
and the cooks are not letting us put globs of modern salad dressings on them.
Some just don't like anything but meat and potatoes with Catsup on them.
>There in the same group are those for cost, or availability reasons
>make substitutions (Hopefully good ones) to produce good medieval like food.
So far as cost is concerned, the range of period recipes is enormous, and
includes lots made from low cost ingredients. Availability sometimes forces
you to substitute, especially if you are starting with a very small range
of alternative recipes--but given how much is currently available for free,
it is hard to see how anyone with web access can be in that situation
currently. You may also have to substitute if your objective is not merely
to provide good food, but to research some particular period cuisine--a few
of whose ingredients are unavailable to you.
Yes, there are a lot of cheap things to make in period food. Its a learning
process to make all the reductions. Even when using someone else's redaction
it can be scary to a non experience cook. Yes, there is a lot on the net. I
have searched many of them as well as used them. There are people out there
that do not have two lines and easy access to the net and cannot afford to
buy all the books. The local library lets me enter my own interlibrary loan.
The local college library will soon get to know me well once I start my new
job. I believe I said I hope the substations are good ones.
>Yes, I can hear one person say, If you can not make the recipe as written do
>not make it. At times I agree with him. Yet, by changing a single
>ingredient and thus exposing more gentles to good medieval LIKE foods, I am
>all for it. I believe As long as we identify what we do we are OK. Its a
>period book I am OK, your OK.
1. Except that it isn't necessary to change an ingredient in order to
expose people to good medieval food.
2. In practice, medievaloid things don't get identified as such, with the
result that people end up with a lot of false historical information
generated in the SCA. In part this is because it is hard to convey the
information. You don't really want a herald at the feast announcing "the
first course is not really period," and anything much more subtle than that
is going to miss a lot of people.
For example, the Icelandic dough, While the version I made the dough was not
edible. I accept yours was. Even following the same recipe. We may have
done something different. I know in our area, people paying for feast would
not be happy with what I produced in my first attempt. I would probably
change the dough and announce it as period like. After reading the portion
about breaking the dough as part of the period feast stick. I may leave it
the as it was. Perhaps even take a loaf try to break it over my head and
explain why in period coffins oft had a hard shell to act as a baking
utensil. Its surpassing how often people come up after a feast and ask how
and why something was done. Or the number of visitors during the cooking we
get. Of course one does not have to change an ingredient to make good
medieval food. Sometimes it easier in some recipes.
>As for myself, I will strive with my own experimentation's to be as
>historically accurate as possible. For my shire, when I am feastacrate, I
>will be much more practical.
What is impractical about doing period recipes?
Generally nothing. However, some on the list may remember the bread and
butter scenario awhile back. MY shire likes bread and butter with feast. I
spoke with many fighters whom said they needed something the recognized to
munch on up while they waited for feast. Perhaps next time I will find a
different something to munch on that is period. ITS practical keeping shire
happy. Its also practical to find things that are easy to make, lower cost,
etc., out of the many options that are available. For a small dinner, I might
cook sometime more expensive and difficult to make for fun. When cooking for
a 100 or so, Its sometimes more practical to chose other things.
> Like Really, OK, from that person I will
>usually get NAZI periods, and that person is like really very practical
>and would serve franks and beans (Franks were Germanic people and I believe
>someone has documented that there were some beans around)
There is some evidence that Franks ate people (an incident during the first
Crusade, reported from both Muslim and Christian sources), but no evidence
I know of that other people ate Franks.
OH well the joke about franks and beans and hot-dogs and beans missed it
mark. Perhaps too much mustard in the humour. I would like you
documentation on the franks eating people. Some members locally would get
bite out of it.
I admit that I am puzzled by the connection between National Socialism and
historical authenticity--my impression was that the Nazis were in favor of
making up their history to suit their needs, ideological and
propagandistic, which would put them on the other side of that particular
argument.
I have no idea How the Term first came to be used within the Scadian context.
It is my understanding that it refers to someone whom enjoys tearing down a
person attempt at historical accuracy and insist that they are the only ones
correct. Essentially, if you do not do everything exactly period as they
know it to be, they will make you feel bad. I have seen newbies turned off
at their first event by people like that. I try to explain that in the SCA,
we all find their own comfort level with historical accuracy. We may start
at one point and move toward more accurate as money, time, knowledge
increase.
I hope that I have explained myself better. Next time I will hopefully
choose my absurd examples better.
Frederich
David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/
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