SC - icelandic sour Dough?

[Tollhase1 at aol.com]

Good Duke Cariadoc

Apparently the point of my message was missed and people have generally 
focused on some of my extreme examples.  Sometimes for fun. For briery, I 
will repeat.  Play nice. Don't be insulted if someone disagrees with you.  I 
believe that some good gentle was upset about what they believe someone 
thought of their idea about dough.  Some people seem to nit pit.  Some tend 
to be generalist.  I tend to learn from the differing view points.  My 
examples were only meant to be that, of differing views.  Hopefully we would 
laugh as I gave my speech upon my oop soap box.

In a message dated 9/2/99 12:33:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ddfr at best.com 
writes:

<< >Some of us, are looking for period like dishes regardless of place and 
time.
 >Such as I want to make beans and franks.  Let see it any of these 
ingredients
 >were ever used within our period at all. They do not even have to be the 
same
 >place or time.  Then we can make the dish.
 
 In what sense is this "period like?" I would have said that you are
 describing someone who wants to cook a particular dish, does not care if it
 is period, but believes he has some obligation to fudge up an argument
 connecting it to something period. Except for the final part, that is a
 perfectly reasonable activity--different people have different priorities,
 and for some people making period food isn't one of them. At Pennsic, for
 example, none of the commercial food services make any attempt at period
 food, or pretend to, and my impression is that the great majority of what
 people cook for themselves is ordinary modern food. The real problem with
 what you are describing is that, because people think they have to pretend
 that what they are doing is period when it isn't, they end up spreading
 false historical information.

Yes, I agree with you that it would be spreading false information.  There 
are SCA cooks out their that gave me that view over the years.  I do not 
agree with them.  A lot more friendly education is necessary to correct this. 
 Remember, there are a lot of SCA type people whom only play at being 
historical or at least do so when it is convient to do so.

 
 >Some of us, are trying to be accurate, but lack the knowledge yet to be
 >reasonably accurate.
 
 A problem that this list exists in part to solve.

And it is doing a good job.  In my discussion of and off the list with some 
of the known world cooks I have learned a lot.  I am still trying to get the 
rest of our shire's cooking guild to subscribe.  They seem to like me 
digesting it for them.
 
 >Some of us, are trying to make period dishes that for practical reasons,
 >tasting good must be first consideration. I.E. having an encampment or feast
 >spitting out the food despite the claims from the kitchen, "Poisoning is
 >period."
 
 Except that nobody who does period cooking makes that claim in that
 context. If the food tastes bad, that is evidence that you are doing
 something wrong.
 
Sorry, the poisoning was meant to be a joke.  I have known feastacrates whom 
believed they were very period and the food was not edible to the masses.  In 
part because tastes of eaters was very narrow.  Have you ever noticed there 
are a lot of Mickey D bags left about by fighters because they have had bad 
experience with those arts and science types whom think they can cook.  

 Implicit in your argument is the assumption that if you make the food
 authentically, it will taste bad--which is contrary to the experience, so
 far as I can tell, of every cook in the SCA who has actually done
 substantial amounts of period cooking.
 
Again, We whom cook know this to be false.  Our shire is known for very good 
food.  I make and many others do in our new barony of fire oaks very good 
food.  Infact for us, its usually a highlight of an event.  Bur remember 
tastes are different.  I like powder Forte.  My lady hides it when I cook.  
Vinegar's are oft used.  Some do not like vinegar.  Some do not like parsnips.
Some do not like salads.  Especially one with all these strange herbs in them 
and the cooks are not letting us put globs of modern salad dressings on them. 
Some just don't like anything but meat and potatoes with Catsup on them.


 >There in the same group are those for cost, or availability reasons
 >make substitutions (Hopefully good ones) to produce good medieval like food.
 
 So far as cost is concerned, the range of period recipes is enormous, and
 includes lots made from low cost ingredients. Availability sometimes forces
 you to substitute, especially if you are starting with a very small range
 of alternative recipes--but given how much is currently available for free,
 it is hard to see how anyone with web access can be in that situation
 currently. You may also have to substitute if your objective is not merely
 to provide good food, but to research some particular period cuisine--a few
 of whose ingredients are unavailable to you.

Yes, there are a lot of cheap things to make in period food.  Its a learning 
process to make all the reductions.  Even when using someone else's redaction 
it can be scary to a non experience cook.  Yes, there is a lot on the net.  I 
have searched many of them as well as used them.  There are people out there 
that do not have two lines and easy access to the net and cannot afford to 
buy all the books.  The local library lets me enter my own interlibrary loan. 
 The local college library will soon get to know me well once I start my new 
job.  I believe I said I hope the substations are good ones.
 
 >Yes, I can hear one person say, If you can not make the recipe as written do
 >not make it.  At times I agree with him.  Yet, by changing a single
 >ingredient and thus exposing more gentles to good medieval LIKE foods, I am
 >all for it.  I believe As long as we identify what we do we are OK.  Its a
 >period book I am OK, your OK.
 
 1. Except that it isn't necessary to change an ingredient in order to
 expose people to good medieval food.
 
 2. In practice, medievaloid things don't get identified as such, with the
 result that people  end up with a lot of false historical information
 generated in the SCA. In part this is because it is hard to convey the
 information. You don't really want a herald at the feast announcing "the
 first course is not really period," and anything much more subtle than that
 is going to miss a lot of people.

For example, the Icelandic dough, While the version I made the dough was not 
edible.  I accept yours was.  Even following the same recipe.  We may have 
done something different.  I know in our area, people paying for feast would 
not be happy with what I produced in my first attempt.  I would probably 
change the dough and announce it as period like.  After reading the portion 
about breaking the dough as part of the period feast stick.  I may leave it 
the as it was.  Perhaps even take a loaf try to break it over my head and 
explain why in period coffins oft had a hard shell to act as a baking 
utensil.  Its surpassing how often people come up after a feast and ask how 
and why something was done.  Or the number of visitors during the cooking we 
get.  Of course one does not have to change an ingredient to make good 
medieval food.  Sometimes it easier in some recipes.  

 >As for myself, I will strive with my own experimentation's to be as
 >historically accurate as possible.  For my shire, when I am feastacrate, I
 >will be much more practical.
 
 What is impractical about doing period recipes? 

Generally nothing.  However, some on the list may remember the bread and 
butter scenario awhile back.  MY shire likes bread and butter with feast.  I 
spoke with many fighters whom said they needed something the recognized to 
munch on up while they waited for feast.  Perhaps next time I will find a 
different something to munch on that is period.  ITS practical keeping shire 
happy.  Its also practical to find things that are easy to make, lower cost, 
etc., out of the many options that are available. For a small dinner, I might 
cook sometime more expensive and difficult to make for fun.  When cooking for 
a 100 or so, Its sometimes more practical to chose other things.
 
 > Like Really, OK, from that person I will
 >usually get NAZI periods, and that person is like really very practical
 >and would serve franks and beans (Franks were Germanic people and I believe
 >someone has documented that there were some beans around)
 
 There is some evidence that Franks ate people (an incident during the first
 Crusade, reported from both Muslim and Christian sources), but no evidence
 I know of that other people ate Franks. 

OH well the joke about franks and beans and hot-dogs and beans missed it 
mark.  Perhaps too much mustard in the humour.  I would like you 
documentation on the franks eating people.  Some members locally would get 
bite out of it.
 
 I admit that I am puzzled by the connection between National Socialism and
 historical authenticity--my impression was that the Nazis were in favor of
 making up their history to suit their needs, ideological and
 propagandistic, which would put them on the other side of that particular
 argument.

I have no idea How the Term first came to be used within the Scadian context. 
 It is my understanding that it refers to someone whom enjoys tearing down a 
person attempt at historical accuracy and insist that they are the only ones 
correct.  Essentially, if you do not do everything exactly period as they 
know it to be, they will make you feel bad.  I have seen newbies turned off 
at their first event by people like that.  I try to explain that in the SCA, 
we all find their own comfort level with historical accuracy.  We may start 
at one point and move toward more accurate as money, time, knowledge 
increase. 

I hope that I have explained myself better.  Next time I will hopefully 
choose my absurd examples better.  

Frederich
 
 David/Cariadoc
 http://www.best.com/~ddfr/
 
 
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