Maybe this will help your search Re: SC - An Elderly Cookbook. OOP

[RichSCA@aol.com]

I go back to Colin's original post of 05 Apr 2000:

>>>>Cider is certainly period and easy to make, and (unlike, say,
beer or wine) the "period style" was probably not greatly different
than modern style.  You press the juice and ferment it.  No boiling,
sterilization, etc. <<<<
<snip>
>>>>As far as apple varieties go, this has been discussed before on this
list
and is therefore somewhere in the Florilegium.  Very few cultivars can be
reliably dated even to the 16th century, much less to the Middle Ages, and
of those only Lady (possibly 16th c.) is grown commercially in small
quantities.  Furthermore, there is little or no evidence that any varieties
were cultivated specifically for cider production in the MA.  Therefore, it
will be next to impossible to re-create a period cider from period apples,
without growing your own.<<<<

I was looking in a book I recently acquired, THE OXFORD BOOK OF
FOOD PLANTS, Harrison, Masesfield & Wallis, 1969, which has some
very nice plates.  The apple section had a separate listing for "Cider
Apples and Perry Pears" which states "...high tannin content [apples]
have been grown for cider and perry for at least 2,500 years.  In England
cider apples were probably grown  in Saxon times but perry pears may not
have been introduced until the Norman Conquest, Normandy then as now
being a great perry area."  Specifically, the author classifies three
distinct
catagories of English ciders: "sweet", "bittersweet" and "sharp".  Examples
are "Sweet Coppin" (Devonshire apple), "Tremlitt's Bitter" (Devonshire
apple),
and "Kingston Black" (Somerset, Glouster and Hereford apple).  Most ciders
(he states) were blended from several varieties to get a proper balance.
"Kingston Black" however was recommended for a single cider.  "Most cider
apples and perry pears have no recorded history", the author states, but
older
name will have "simple names of a farm or village or their raiser".

For perry pears, he mentions "Thorn Pear" (known in 1676) and "Red Pear"
(Herefordshire and Worchestershire) "known since Tudor times".  Perhaps
of value in research would be a book he mentions, POMONA
HEREFORDENSIS by Thomas Andrew Knight, 1811. in which many almost
forgotten cider and perry varieties are identified.  Perhaps some of our
antiquarian bibliofiles could scrounge up this pome tome???  The heart of
cider making in England seems to be in the Devonshire/ Herefordshire area
and perry making in France (Normandy).  Can some of our European list
members check out regional sources in these areas as any period evidence
may be most likely to dwell in those locations?

>>>>Bottom line, though, is that there is precious little information out
there
on pre-17th century apple cultivation (although there is a certain amount
of MIS-information).  If you live in an area where "wild" apple trees grow,
or where crabapples are still grown, try making cider from them - it will
be closer than anything else you can get to what was generally available in
Northern Europe through the 13th century.<<<<

Maybe, maybe not, if Dr. Wallis' study (unfortunately not well documented)
is anywhere close to accurate.  At least he is English and had at hand local
sources available to access.   The specificly grown fruit for fermentation
he cites would tend to preclude good cider from "wild" apples or crabs.  My
own studies (as I am in progress of commercial growing of period and "old"
varieties now of apples and pears) seems to indicate a very definite and
period "specialization" of fruits for eating, cooking, desserts, and
fermentation.
"Wild" apples grown from seeds are totally random and are mostly awful,
especially in the US where the current orchard stocks from which seedlings
occur are generally only "eating apples" and not particularly good ones at
that.    I think your statement might be more possibly true in areas of
Europe
where the original Malus stock from which domestic apples were breed still
exists.  I would suspect that the cider from Saxon times was very carefully
produced from certain varieties (names of which were not recorded) by
families or villages which became known for their product's superior taste.
It seems that many cider varieties are very limited in their microclime and
soil
preferences, so a widespread and uniform industry does not seem to have
been the case.   I think recipes (passed by non written means) for sucessful
blends were probably "secret" to some degree as to the varieties used and
blended.

Balthazar of Blackmoor  asked:

>>>>Does anyone have any information of which particular family of apples
would be most appropriate for a "period style" cider?  I would like to use
"belgian apples", but have no information regarding which, if any, were
grown in medieval times.  If all else fails, I will use Granny Smith.  I am
looking for a tart apple cider, but the apples themselves need not be tart.
The yeast should take care of that nicely.  Any ideas?<<<<

I think the best way to "approximate"  period ciders and perrys is
to research the most common 17th century varieties and what few 16th century
varieties we can find, then look at the 18th and 19th century apples which
decended from them (which we do have some records concerning their
parentage).
Generally, apples in Britain are classified in 8 or 9 "groups".  Most cider
apples
will be in one or two groups at most.   Go about selection by eliminating
apples
which do not fall in the same groups as cider apples.  This should knock out
about 75% of apple varieties in modern cultivation.   Then look for common
ancestors of the oldest cider apples in the remaining 25% and see which
of the 17th century varieties were the most frequent ancestors of good 18th
century varieties.   As cider and perry varieties were and are so
specialized,
we can at least see some of the common characteristics of shape, size, color
and acidity which would help identify "periodlike" probabilities of the
unnamed
period survivors (if any).  I think this is better than a hit or miss method
using
Granny Smith, Northern Spy or Winesaps, which are grown for their cooking
and
eating characteristics.  Again, I point out that "tart" is not the only
characteristic
of good cider apples, it is a BLEND of sweet, bittersweet and sharp apple
tastes.

Akim Yaroslavich
"No glory comes without pain"