SC - Re: Potatos Again

[RANDALL DIAMOND]

Thank you Bear for checking my old posts.  Your comments
are certainly excellent.  As to the potato in Northern Europe,
I agree that the spread of potatos there was certainly post period
except as ornamentals and curiousities. I was heavy on Tannhill,
I admit, but slender as the documentation is, the fact of hearsay
of Italian peasantry regularly consuming potatos must have some
basis we can pinpoint.  Another evidence I would submit is the
evolution of the rather small native potatos of the Incas to the
smallish but almost normal sized of potatos shown in 17th century
illustrations would indicate to me that they were being regularly
grown as an important food crop from rather early on.  You would
not select for large tubers if they were strictly being used in an
ornamental mode only.  As potatos are vegetively propogated from
pieces of potato normally rather than from seed, I would presume
that the increase in size was not a genetic mutation from seed.
Rather, I would expect the tubers to increase as cultivation proceeds.
Of course, I could be completely off base in that assumption and the
tubers immediately grew to 8 to 10 times the size of the Incan plants
merely because of the differences in soil and growing conditions.  I do
think this is not likely as the early herbal descriptions do not indicate
large sizes of tubers.

The Salaman book certainly will, if anyone finds a copy, allow a better
examination of the question.   A  point I would make about the
Italians (alleged) potato useage is that I observe some foods common
to Italy in period that do not seem to make it north at all or at least
rarely to be consumed as a food item.    Olives, sumach, pomelos, etc.
I think that this is because of the difficulty of crossing the mountain
ranges with bulk produce.  Overland transportation into the German
states, Austria and Hungary was mostly by mule caravan through a l
imited number of routes. Food items we know that were carried were
largely luxury items like wine or very valiuable like spices. It is unlikely
that the passes to the North were still open long enough by the time
of the Italian harvest to make hauling produce North viable.  It seems
reasonable that the early potatos concentrated in the central Med
areas.  Another reason is the nationalist nature of cuisine traditions.

I think we do not see potatos going east into Greece because
the soils of the Balkans and Greek islands are not conducive to
growing much besides goats, though it is worse today probably than
then .  Likewise, the Islamic areas of asia minor.  I think we also do
not hear much of Spanish potato farming because Spanish farming
was being devastated by the ruin of their economy from the wealth
being poured in from the New World.   By the 17th century, the lack
of workers had caused such erosion and decay of once productive
farmland that it was impossible to salvage.  This would have not been
an attractive area to experiment with new crops like potatos.

The 1663 date for the Royal Society of England recommending that
potatoes be planted as a hedge against famine indicates to me that
the food value of the potato was well established to them even if
the actual planting in England was uncommon at that time.  Again,
I would point to (hearsay) the Italians for this information as the
end of the Tudor period was VERY HIGHlY aware of Italian gardening
and landscaping practices and were heavily influenced by Italian
culture (as opposed to other European powers at the time).  It was
in the late 17th century that we see the influences of the Germans
grow on English culture.

At any  rate, speculation is interesting but not conclusive.  I believe
that we will eventually find documentation for potatos somewhere
in the middle of our opinions on the subject.  If anyone finds any new
sources be sure to pass it it on to the list.

Thanks everyone.
Akim Yaroslavich
"No glory comes without pain"