SC - Re: dietary restrictions (longish)

[Christina van Tets]

Hello the list!

a recap of my own message with Cadoc's comments:

> >Just my thoughts on religious dietary restrictions (no, this is not a
> >commentary on religion itself):
>
>Good, that would give us all a headache.
>

Besides which, Papa Gunthar has already asked us to leave off making snide 
remarks about other people's perception of religion, if you don't remember.

> >I cannot imagine that anyone in the modern western world follows 
>religious
> >dietary restrictions out of fear of being struck down by >lightning for 
>not
> >following them.  Therefore, I surmise (long words >today!) that they do 
>it
> >from choice, just as vegetarians do.
>
>It could be out of habit as well, I have to admit that I find
>myself falling back to my PA Dutch Salt-n-Pepper cooking background
>more often than not when I'm just cooking for myself.  It's
>habitual food, like a potpie or stew that I fall back on out
>of my habit and Calvinist upbringing.
>

Habit is still choice.  Most people are presented with so many arguments for 
_not_ following their chosen way that they could not possibly have not 
thought about it.

> >Just as vegetarians are allowed to follow their chosen diet without being
> >told what fools they are for doing so, I suggest that those of >us who
> >choose to follow religious diets be allowed the same freedom.
>
>Yeah, but then again, what gives you the right to impose it on us?

Where could you possibly have got the notion that I was imposing anything on 
anyone?  I was asking for gentleness, not actually for myself in this 
instance, but for other people who are scolded for preferring not to eat an 
item, regardless of the reason.

I feel it more strongly here, because those of us who do not follow the 
Pesach restrictions get shouted at for buying flour in the shops at present. 
  If I won't eat animal products because it's Holy Week and I can't eat 
grains and legumes because the rest of the country bans them for that week, 
I'm going to starve.  But that doesn't mean in any way that I would tell 
Jewish friends who had me around to dinner that they couldn't serve meat 
while I was there.  I would probably limit my visits to those Jews who are 
religious, though - they seem to understand my choice to fast, even though 
we don't share the same religion.  So I was merely attempting to illustrate 
the feelings of someone from a minority group who has a difficulty with the 
norms of the majority.  I have an Italian friend who has the same difficulty 
eating donkey, when everyone else seems to think it's normal.


>I mean if you're asking for special dishes at an event,

I have _never_ asked for special dishes at an event.  I haven't even asked 
people not to serve armoured turnips, even though I loathe them.

I've made
>a point to let people I know when something they don't eat is going
>by them, but if you have a special dietary concern, religious or medical (I
>myself can't eat shellfish) then you should let the troll
>know in advance so they can tell the feast-o-crat in advance so they
>can either flag the dishes ahead of time or maybe make a smaller portion
>(which I have done in the past) without the offending ingredient.
>
>I do harass Vegetarians about their diets, but not the religious
>folk...
>

Many long-term vegetarians have lost their enzymes for meat digestion and 
are therefore effectively allergic to meat.  Is it really fair to harass 
them about an allergy?

> >Yes, I do fast during Lent, even though my denomination does not require
> >it.  I do it as a personal expression of my religion, and >object to 
>being
> >told not to.  Sorry if I'm being touchy, but here >people are >gearing up 
>for Pesach, which allows the things Lent doesn't, and >bans the things Lent 
>allows...
>
>Hey, if you don't eat you don't eat, no skin off of my head.  Keep
>the reasons to yourself unless people get pushy, just so long as
>you don't kill yourself in the process.
>

This is the first time I had ever mentioned to anyone that I actually 
fasted.  I felt the discussion merited some explanation.

> >As regards food while fasting, I think it pefectly reasonable to ask why 
>a
> >restriction may disallow something, without getting into >culinarily
> >irrelevant politico-religious discussions (I said I was >using long words
> >today - eek!).
>
>Better than Socioeconomic relevance, which it all has loads of.

I know, but it's still my choice.  And asking the reason why X might be 
considered part of N food group by a certain religion doesn't have to 
trigger everyone else's responses to that religion in general.

I don't
>consider Lent to be really a fast, in comparison to other
>religions whom require you to spend days/weeks without food.
>

I think no animal products for the whole of Holy Week counts pretty highly, 
when you think that people can eat all sorts of things after dark in 
Ramadan.

>Of course, that's where recipes like sekanjabin and such come in,
>because while you might not be able to eat, you are allowed to
>drink...the Moslems used that loophole perfectly.
>
Not the ones I know.  In my acquaintance, no-one over the age of 5 is 
allowed to do more than wash their mouth out with water - and some won't 
even consciously swallow their own saliva.


Cairistiona

Had a similar experience to the lady who had ham in her soup just recently.  
One of the chicken dishes I served at the demo/class just recently had wine 
in it, and someone turned up just at the last minute (at least, to the best 
of my information), who was Palestinian and didn't realise there was wine in 
it (and it was Friday).  He very civilly turned the whole thing into a joke, 
but I'm not sure he meant it.  My guess is that he didn't think about the 
possibility of there being wine, because he would never use it himself...
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