SC - Re: saffron

[Michael F. Gunter]

> How could my post possibly denigrate the years of research and hard work of
> others on this list?

It doesn't. But it also encourages people to take half measures when attempting
to recreate period dishes. Note that I said "recreate" and not "cook feast".
I feel that if someone is recreating a dish they should follow is carefully and
attempt to not substitute anything that they can get their hands on. But there
are things that we have to do when we can't have access to things. Many
people don't  have access to verjuice or sour orange juice or certain herbs
and spices that were used then. In that case we attempt to use the best
substitute we can and note the ommission.

> My venomous response was directed toward your arrogant
> and demanding post.

And I've found many comments getting close to the limit of courtesy on
several posts. This isn't the Rialto and, although I don't mind a spirited
argument, I will not tolerate discourtesy or flaming.

> I think you forget one very important thing about this
> Society, and that is the "Creative" portion of the name.

Too many people use the "Creative" aspect of our name as a camoflage
to do non-period things. I like to think of the "Creative" aspect as using
creativity to figure out how they did stuff and how we can recreate it
using our limited means.

> We are to re-create
> how the middle ages "should" have been.

I personally have never been comfortable with that phrase. Now I am a
lousy re-creater. My clothing is not perfectly period, my tent is modern,
my fighting and armor are modern. I talk about modern things at events.
So this isn't coming from one of those rabid reenactors. I'm a typical
SCA type person.

But I'm hoping to get better because it makes me feel better doing it.
I started out wearing gi pants and an oversized green t-shirt. I fought in
a spun dome helm, carpet armor and basketball pads. But over the years
I improved. I now wear tights and doublets. My armor now looks more
proper (although I cheat and use studded leather over plastic instead of
steel) and I'm working on getting a period tent. Part of the reason I do
this is because I've been given high-falutin' rank and feel I should start
looking the part. But the other part is because I like it.

I don't slam the bunnyfur barbarians. I look at them as barbarians and as
fellow warriors. I then show those that have promise the way I look at
things. The same goes with my cooking.

>  If you, personally, wish to
> dogmatically stick within the confines of an ages old recipe, then good for
> you.  Even more so if you have spent considerable hours in research and
> fact-finding.  This is a worthwhile endeavor for some people.  But, to
> emphatically say that "I" cannot substitute an ingredient in a medieval dish
> borders on the absured.  It was done on a daily basis in our era of study,
> and I defy anyone who says otherwise to come up with proof.

I like the comment. But if you have spent considerable study on a subject
and then added "yellow dye no. 4" how could you say the recipe was still
period? Taking out saffron and adding tumeric or safflower may have been
done in period by a cook who didn't like or have saffron but the saffron may
have been an important part of the dish. To serve a peanut butter and jelly
sandwich without peanut butter but with regular butter instead does not
make it a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

Taking shortcuts for a feast or something is perfectly acceptable. Shoot,
I do it all the time. But for a presentation of period food any alteration
should
be approached with caution.

> I have the sword
> of culinary history and evolution to back me up on this arguement, sir.  As I
> have said, cuisine is a living and fluid art, which means it is, was, and
> always will be changing.  I know there are others on this very list who will
> agree with me.

I'm pretty sure most people agree with you. But we aren't looking at evolution
when re-creating a recipe. A horned toad is an evolution of a dinosaur, but it
certainly isn't a dino. Preparing good-tasting dishes with the flavor of the
Middle Ages is cool. But getting good cooks excited about the fun of doing
it the way they did it is even cooler.

Taking medieval spicing and applying it to modern recipes is a definate
expansion of our art. And I've noticed many of us have begun doing that.
I love using cubebs and grains of paradise in modern cookery now. I've
started using some cooking techniques and flavors when I cook dinner
because I like the taste. This is the growth of our art. And I was
definately one of those who felt period food was nasty when this list
began.

> There are many people on this list and in this Society who,
> it would appear, base their ideas of the medieval era solely on precedent,
> and are incapable or unwilling to look past this, and into the "creative"
> possibility that, yes, indeed, turmeric may have been used as a substitute
> for saffron.

And if it is shown that tumeric was used in period I would have no problem
with it. But that doesn't mean the dish is the same. Like leaving okra
out of gumbo. It tastes good but it isn't gumbo. (I personally hate okra.)
You have a very nice stew but gumbo means okra.

Leaving ingredients out of our period recipes is a common thing simply because
most of us don't have access to them. But don't you think it's a shame when
we leave out stuff that is readily available?

> This is a re-creation society...NOT a re-enactment society.

But neither is it a fantasy society. How can we consider ourselves an
"educational" organisation if we ignore some aspects and promote others?
Part of the SCA is based on fun and tolerance. That's why it has lasted so long
and grown so big. But another part is based on the past as it was. Learning
and growing are part of what we are. People dress and armor better than they
did 20 years ago. This is evolution.

>       I'll stop now before anyone gets mad.

Open discussion should not make people mad. And I hope I haven't offended you.
Stating a position is okay as long as nobody is denigrated in the process.

> In service to (but never a slave of) the Dream,

I'm not a slave either. I've just found something that is fun.

Gunthar