SC - Re: Potatos Again

[Decker, Terry D.]

> I was heavy on Tannhill,
> I admit, but slender as the documentation is, the fact of hearsay
> of Italian peasantry regularly consuming potatos must have some
> basis we can pinpoint.  
> 
Probably, but for accuracy in stating a position, it is hearsay.

> Another evidence I would submit is the
> evolution of the rather small native potatos of the Incas to the
> smallish but almost normal sized of potatos shown in 17th century
> illustrations would indicate to me that they were being regularly
> grown as an important food crop from rather early on.  <clipped>
> Rather, I would expect the tubers to increase as cultivation proceeds.
	<clipped>

It is very possible, in fact very likely, the selective breeding was done by
17th and 18th century botanists, as we already know they were sharing the
tubers at the end of the 16th Century (Clusius).  Experiments with potatoes
led to debates and recommendations about its use as a food source.
Examining the history of the potato from the 17th through the 20th Centuries
is almost a necessity to understanding the limits of the potato in the 16th
Century.

There was a great amount of hybridization in the 17th and 18th Centuries.
For example, Antoine Nicolas Duchesne crossed Chilean and Virginian
strawberries to produce the forerunner of modern commercial strawberries and
developed the modern butternut squash (Curcubita moschata duchesne (IIRC)).
And as for modern changes to the potato, look at Luther Burbank.

> A  point I would make about the
> Italians (alleged) potato useage is that I observe some foods common
> to Italy in period that do not seem to make it north at all or at least
> rarely to be consumed as a food item.    Olives, sumach, pomelos, etc.
> 
Olives and pomelos don't adapt well to cold climates.  Sumach might,
depending on the species.  Plants which can adapt to other regions are
usually imported as seed or shoots and the breed stock is reproduced to the
point where it becomes a new food stuff for the region.  This is how
pineapples came to Hawaii, bananas came to the New World, and coffee came to
Yemen.

	<clipped, speculation of transportation, soil conditions, etc.>

> The 1663 date for the Royal Society of England recommending that
> potatoes be planted as a hedge against famine indicates to me that
> the food value of the potato was well established to them even if
> the actual planting in England was uncommon at that time.
> Again, I would point to (hearsay) the Italians for this information as the
> end of the Tudor period was VERY HIGHlY aware of Italian gardening
> and landscaping practices and were heavily influenced by Italian
> culture (as opposed to other European powers at the time).  It was
> in the late 17th century that we see the influences of the Germans
> grow on English culture.
> 
	<clipped>
> Thanks everyone.
> Akim Yaroslavich
> "No glory comes without pain"
> 
When you come to the Royal Society, they are more likely to be influenced by
"scientific" culture than Italian or German culture.  They are part of the
informal international intellectual circuit which can be glimpsed in
Clusius' quote.  I would suggest that the food value of the potato was
established by them rather than to them.  

It would be interesting to look at population growth, agricultural
production and famine in the 17th and 18th Century to see if there is a
correlation between that and potato production.

Bear