SC - Re: Goodbye (RANT)

[Michael F. Gunter]

> I don't have access to primary sources, and only have ready
> access to the Miscellany or the Florilegium to get recipes that I
> can use.  No one I know actually owns an Apicus or even a copy of
> Pleyn Delit, and my budget constraints mean that I can't order
> them from internet bookstores.

The Miscellany and Florilegium are both good compendiums of information.
But there are a number of other sources online. Master Huens pages,
Anne-Marie's pages are a couple of others. Also I have built up an
impressive database of period and non-period recipes and lore just
from this list. If you don't buy your own books then I can't see any
better resource than this list, Madrone's Guild list and the internet
can give you.

> I hear people say "don't substitute," "don't leave out
> ingredients," implying that if I don't do it perfectly EXACTLY
> according to the written original, that I'm a failure as a
> cooking re-enactor.

The discussion isn't that you cannot substitute. It is that if you change
a major ingredient then the dish won't be the same. There have been
many discussions on this list of the best things to use as substitutes
for ingredients that are difficult to get. Cheap soy sauce for murri or
lemon juice added to orange juice for sour orange juice, cider vinegar
for verjuice comes immediately to mind. We all admit that we do the
best we can with the resources we have. There are some members
of this list who have thier own gardens, make the cheese, raise the
animals and never eat in a restaurant. There are others who eat
ramen noodles three times a week, substitute like crazy, and
have used pancake mix instead of beer batter when making frittors.
(guilty!).

> Have any of you people who keep harping about "periodness" really
> looked at what you are saying to those of us with less
> experience?  To me, it sounds a whole lot like, "If you aren't
> going to do it right (IOW, exactly as the original source
> documentation--or as "I"--say), don't even bother to do it."

There has been some of that and I've been trying to tone it down. But
there are a lot of artists on this board and, like many artists, they
can sometime be arrogant. I do my best to keep this down but as
long as they don't openly insult someone I leave their temperments
be. Although I have warned some on occasion about their attitudes.

> The whole response on the "Period Ingredient List" was a great
> example of what I'm talking about. Someone came up with an idea,
> meant to be truly helpful to beginning cooks, and then all the
> people who are adamant about only doing feasts set in one
> particular place and time period started going on and on and on
> about how it was a bad idea unless the author of the list was
> going to specify just when each type of food was used and so on.
> Good grief!  Not all of us are ready to cook an perfect
> Andalusian Muslim wedding feast circa 1239.... some of us just
> want to get started doing things that aren't too complicated.  We
> want to feed our patrons tasty foods that didn't break the bank
> nor our sanity in cooking them.  We need our confidence built up,
> not smashed down because we are doing a "generic" feast with
> ingredients and recipes from throughout the "official timeline."

But don't you think it is difficult to come up with a complete list
of "period" foods that you should have in an orginisation which
spans 1000 years and the entire of Europe, Arabia and the Northern
regions? Not to mention the imports of the New World. This was
a discussion amongst some of the best food historians around
about what was used in their area of interest. And I did manage
to get a pretty good list out of it after the smoke cleared. The
posters suggestion got answered but just a bit more than was
expected. Now if the suggestion had been in the line of "Could
someone come up with a list of stuff a new SCA cook could use?"
I think the answer would have been simpler.

> I'm sorry if I've offended anyone with this post, but I'm tired
> of feeling like I'm worthless as a cook because I can't come up
> to someone else's standards of what makes a successful SCA feast
> menu and presentation.

Shoot, I can't come up with it either. But I've become a better historical
cook and better SCA cook because of it. I thought I was pretty hot stuff
when I started this and now I usually stay quiet and learn. I'm sorry
if you feel you are worthless. I've changed my attitudes and sat at the
knees of masters in hopes I become a master someday as well. Nothing
has ever been directed at someone as telling them they are worthless
if they don't do exact recipes. But I have seen several times when
a cook posts a menu and people on this list suggest ways to make it
more period. This has always been done in a helpful manner. Some
people's tones may sound hard but the person is always willing to
apologize when reminded of it.

> Not all of us have been active in the SCA
> for as many years as many on this list, and not all of us have
> had an opportunity to get to have hands on training from the
> "professional SCA cooks" who appear to be the ones we are
> measured against.

Please forgive me but, so? I haven't had that opportunity
either. I would guess that 80% of the over 100 subscribers have
never had the opportunity to work with Cariadoc, Anne-Marie,
Adamantius, Ras, Clarissa, Cindy, or any of the others I consider
Masters on this list. But I get to learn from them every day here.
I certainly measure myself against them. And I usually come up
lacking. But, like training with a Duke, I get better.

> Many of us have to work alone with no input
> from experienced "kitchen stewards" or whatever the politically
> correct term is today.

See above. You get to every day.

> Instead, I've become less and less
> enthused about doing medieval cooking.  Why should I be excited
> about getting a frumenty made that my kids will eat, when I'm
> going to see a post on the list saying that I should have done it
> another way--implying that my accomplishment is worthless?

I have never seen any post that indicated any such thing. If we were
all so hung up on period only then why have we had overlong posts
on White Castle hamburgers, Thanksgiving dinners, the right barbecue
or any of the other tons of topics that are discussed? We're cooks.
We like food. If you post something where you say you make a
frumetty-type dish that your kids love, it will probably go into
100 food databases. And if someone says, "Cool, but in period
it was served this way." They aren't slamming you or calling your
effort worthless. If anything they are preventing disinformation from
spreading. So that some cook in Siberia doesn't read your post and
serve frumetty with cream and sugar to head table and announce
that it is period.

Period cooking has enough bad press and misinformation as it
is and we just try to control it a bit.

> I was going to simply unsubscribe quietly and
> forget about all this, but I decided that my feelings are valid
> and that I had a right to present them.

If you are truly upset then your feelings are valid and you do have
a right to present them. But I feel that your feelings may be a bit
misplaced. I try to keep a close watch here and these people
know I don't tolerate abuse on my list. I have not seen any direct
attacks to anyone. I have seen differing opinions and those are
welcome as long as they are posted as differing opinions and
not character assassinations.

> Farewell. Maybe I'll come back someday... but if it's just more
> of the same, then I won't be sticking around then either.

This may sound horrible of me but from what I've seen on this
list I do hope it is more of the same. I have nothing to apologize
about here. I'm sorry that you don't see this list the same.

> Bernadette

Yours,

Gunthar