SC - duck and bread

[Susan Fox-Davis]

Once again, I am gently corrected for my mistaken distinction and I give
thanks.  Thanks also for the Andalusian recipes.  Your Grace, I have missed your
inspiration to higher levels of authenticity.

When did qata'if take its current shredded form?

Susan/Selene
selene at earthlink.net

david friedman wrote:

> At 7:34 PM -0700 8/24/00, Susan Fox-Davis wrote:
>
> >  > Is there any evidence to suggest that the modern qata'if product of
> >  > shredded phyllo/borek is what is referred to in Al Baghdadi, etc.?
> >  >
> >
> >No evidence on paper.  It's all just flour and water.  I'd serve it
> >at a banquet, but
> >probably wouldn't try to enter it in a documentation-intensive
> >competition situation... yet.
>
> As usual, I am bothered by this distinction. The way you put it
> suggests, at least to my eye, that the problem is not "it isn't true"
> but "I can't document it." But the only reason documentation matters
> is as evidence that something is true.
>
> Prior to Adamantius's post, everyone in this thread was taking it for
> granted that the assertion that shredded phyllo was what al Baghdadi
> referred to was true. No evidence had been offered, and I gather
> noone here has any evidence. "It's all just flour and water" isn't
> really an answer, given the wide range of things you can do with
> flour and water--and besides, we don't even know, at this point, that
> qatâif is just flour and water.
>
> For a little additional information, the following are out of
> Manuscrito Anonimo, a 13th c. Andalusian cookbook--parenthetical
> comments by Charles Perry, the translator.
>
> The Making of Qatâif
> Put a potful of water on the fire until it boils, and throw in
> coarsely ground semolina, and cook it on the fire until it becomes
> pudding ('asîda). Then take it out of the pot and put it in a dish;
> boil honey and pour it on top, with pepper, and present it, God
> willing.
>
> [This is an aberrant recipe. Qataif are basically crepes, very thin
> breads or things made from them.]
>
> Jûdhâba with Qatâif
>
> Take a new qaswila [a cazuela or earthenware casserole] and wash it
> and pour in it fresh oil. Then put a qatâif or a ruqâq (thin
> flatbread), according to the size of the mold (the earthenware
> casserole); then break over it four eggs and a handful of ground
> sugar or honey, then add qatîfa [the rarely used singular of qatâif]
> in addition, or two ruqâqs, and break over them four eggs and a
> handful of sugar, and do all this the same as you would chicken. Then
> proceed to cover it all up with fresh milk and a little fresh oil;
> arrange it in the tannur or in the bread oven and put on it the
> chicken or a fat rib or whatever fat meat you wish and leave it until
> it is done, arrange it on the marble, sprinkle with sugar and serve,
> God willing. And if you want to use sugar or almonds in place of
> eggs, it is very excellent.
>
> Recipe for Fidaush (Noodles)
>
> This is made from dough and has three types: the long one shaped like
> wheat grains, the round one like coriander seeds that is called in
> Bijaya (Bougie) and its region humais [literally, little garbanzos]
> and the one that is made in thin sheets, as thin as paper and which
> is food for women; they cook it with gourd, spices and fat; it is one
> of the qatâif. Fidaush is cooked like itriyya [see next recipe].
>
> Recipe for Abbasid Qatâif
>
> [p. 69, recto] It is made from the pierced musahhada that has already
> been mentioned. Take peeled almonds, pound them and let them dry
> until they are like semolina. Add as much again of sugar, spikenard,
> cloves, and Chinese cinnamon. Then take a flatbread (raghîf) of the
> aforementioned musahhada, free of burns, and sprinkle it with those
> almonds and ground sugar aplenty. Sprinkle it with rosewater in which
> some camphor is dissolved, and fold it until it is a half circle.
> Glue the edges with dough wetted in rosewater, and put it in a
> frying-pan full of fresh oil. Boil it, and then take it out
> immediately and remove it so it drains of the oil. Let if float in a
> syrup of roses or julep or skimmed honey. You might make raghîfs on
> raghîfs, filled inside, and glue the margins together, and they will
> turn out circles and halves.
>
> None of which sound like shredded filo. I take it that Charles
> Perry's parenthetical comment sums up at least what he knows--very
> thin breads or things made from them--which is consistent with all
> save the first recipe.
>
> David/Cariadoc
> http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
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