SC - your opinions, please

[Philip & Susan Troy]

"Decker, Terry D." wrote:
> 
> IIRC, there is a Roman recipe which is very similar to hamburgers.  There is
> also one in Platina that the instruction might be interpreted as a hamburger
> eqivalent.  There is not a lot of information on the dining habits of the
> upper crust in Ptolemaic Egypt, so the possibility of the meal is open to
> question.

Certainly it's open to question, but as regards not-adequately-examined
possibilities, we should probably remember that Ptolemaic Egypt was, to
some extent, a Hellenized culture, and what might have been eaten at the
north of the Mediterranean, all other ingredients being equal, could
conceivably have been eaten at the south. Now if only I could shake this
idea that the author was working from a kibbee recipe... .
> 
> I do wonder about the dormouse.  I don't believe their natural range
> extended into Egypt.  Given their size, about 4 inches, I don't think they
> would have been turned into "ground" meat.  I may be wrong, but I believe
> Apicius served them whole in honey.
> 
> As an opinion, I would say that the meal described is an author's attempt at
> verisimilitude rather than a historically accurate recipe.

What he said.
> 
> On to turnips, the Celtic root vegetable before potatoes.  Yes, you can
> replace the potatoes with turnips, but that is a matter taste rather than
> historical accuracy.
> 
> I am assuming your thought is that by replacing the obviously New World
> potato with the Old World turnip will make the recipes in your Celtic
> cookbook more period.  Your recipes may feel more period by using turnips,
> but it does not place the origin of the recipes within period or make them
> historically accurate.  While a number of the recipes may have period
> antecedents, the recipes themselves are modern and may have changed
> considerably from the original.

Again, what he said. In addition, though, there seems a fairish amount
of evidence to suggest that potatoes, and before them turnips, as a
staple, were probably viewed differently than they were after the
eighteenth through the early twentieth centuries in places like Ireland.
It's not just a matter of a lack of the "Irish" potato in period, it's
also a completely different economy, a different land and resource
distribution, and probably a higher standard of living among Irish
peasantry than it later became under the absentee landlord system. 

It's possible that the dishes being referred to are the result of a
mentality that, prior to the Great Hunger, saw no meal complete without
potatoes, and their introduction may have been more a matter of austere
bulking or stretching of the meat ingredients than just a way to
introduce a healthy vegetable.

In short (ha!) any extant precursors to dishes like the one described
may not have included a signifcant vegetable content at all.

Adamantius
- -- 
Phil & Susan Troy

troy at asan.com