SC - questions/kinda long, sorry

[Elaine Koogler]

Right on!!!!!

Kiri

KallipygosRed at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/14/00 8:06:42 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
> LrdRas at aol.com writes:
>
> > <sigh> To who m? The tiny minority of the SCA. Inc. that composes the
> group?
> >  The few eventers that come their way? Would you except such a lax standard
> > in
> >  calligraphy, illumination, costuming, and any o the myriad other areas of
> >  interest in the SCA? This smacks not a little of the 'if they had it they
> >  would have used or done it' mentality. Not acceptable in any sense of the
> >  meaning, IMO.
> >
> >  Ras
> >
>
> Okay, I'm gonna get in on this, not because I have any expertise in cooking;
> I'm still learning, but because I do have some in the other areas that you
> mentioned. The "if they had had it they would have used it" terminology can
> cover a lot of ground. Yes, we know what you mean; serving potatoes,
> chocolate candy, etc.  Trying to keep a period feast period is always
> difficult with that kind of mentality working; but sometimes authenticity can
> go a little far. Insisting on strident authenticity can sometimes cause the
> feast not to go at all. If you know you are from a small barony, or a shire,
> and the people you are serving are limited; and the goal of the feast is to
> at least break even...then you need to keep in mind what people will **eat**.
> It doesn't do any good, as I've said before, to serve fish in our locality.
> It doesn't go over. We have tried salmon, trout, and various other wonderful
> fish to have it returned practically uneaten and at great cost for a small
> limited budget. At an outdoor event without proper (at least to me) ways of
> keeping the fish cold for leftovers, it means I've just paid a lot of money
> for dog food. Its unfortunate, but I know that is the way it is here. It may
> differ where you are and the "item of distaste" could be something completely
> different, like rice. I don't know. The point is, when you know that most
> folks will eat fowl, some will eat meat, that the attending king is a
> vegetarian, and the queen has an allergy to wheat based products...it can put
> a damper on the feast staying truly period. In that case, making receipes
> with period ingredients without a menu to have based them on is just about
> your only fallback. I don't know if Soy was a period ingredient, but for the
> sake of the queen, I would make soy breads. Having her sit through an eight
> course meal and not eat would be humiliating to me; and probably not real
> condusive to her coming to another feast **I** offer in the near future. Do
> you see what I'm getting at here? I'm not saying that everyone who attempts a
> feast can go into it on the perfect aspect of having a period feast in all
> respects. Alterations sometimes have to be made. Otherwise eventually no one
> will show and the whole thing becomes undoable. We've had that happen here as
> well. People want good food, edible, with tastes familiar to them, and fun
> while they do it. If that is a themed event, then great. I want to build up a
> clientele of people who know that all my feasts in the future will have good,
> tasty food; and my ultimate dream will be a completely period feast with all
> the trimmings cooked in a period way on period devices.... I can't just leap
> both feet into a feast like that without learning. I wouldn't attempt to put
> one on like that without learning. It is my goal. In the meantime, I still
> want to have fun, tasty feasts with good food as near to period as I can get
> them, while considering the aspects of the people who are likely to attend
> it. If I did it any other way I could be in the SCA for many, many years
> without ever having done a single feast!
>
> I'm a seamstress, not a cook--yet. I like making clothing. Yet I think
> teaching cooking and teaching sewing are similar in how they must approach it
> to the person who doesn't know how. I wouldn't take a person who has never
> stitched a seam and have them construct a pair of pants. I would start with
> simple things and possibly use fabrics for ease of wear rather than for
> authenticity. Maybe a tee-tunic out of a soft cotton instead of silk.  There
> will be mistakes; I'm aware of that as a teacher. And if my student shows up
> with a poly cotton because they cannot afford 100% cotton at that time; then
> fine; I won't send him away ridiculed for it. I will teach them the basics,
> and instruct as to why the poly cotton should not be used in the future. I
> take this further in "play": For kitchen wear I will "costume" myself in
> something that easily throws together and has the right look. It may not be
> totally authentic because I'm not gonna wear something that has eight layers
> around hot ovens; and has to be dry cleaned to boot. In court, now that may
> require the full dress. Yes, when I talk to people who are interested in
> sewing period I tell them how they can do it period.  They come to my house,
> or I to them, and we research the garment they would like to have--together.
> They learn as they go. When I talk to them and they have a specific use for
> the garment, I try to give them advice on how to make it as period as
> possible for the instance. I use a serger; on one of my other lists they have
> been talking about how Guilds require you to finish your seams in period
> style by period methods. Sorry, for this reason I will **never** join a
> guild. In our neck of the woods, it is not a requirement for A&S Competition
> to do your seams this way, just to **know** that the seams would have been
> finished that way and document it for the judges. I'm not gonna sit for hours
> and French seam a piece  by hand. To me that is a waste of my valuable time.
> I know how they were constructed, and if it becomes a requirement to
> construct it that way to enter the item; then I will consider it.  Or if I
> have a hankering to prove to myself that I can do it by hand, I might attempt
> it. But not before. Unlike the seamstresses/cooks of period, I have other
> things that I must do with my day. The same will hold for feasting, for me.
> If I know that flour and baking powder were used in a receipe for some sort
> of bread, then I have no aversion to using mixtures to cut out a step. But in
> the event of a truly full period feast, I will **know** the difference.
>
> It was just such an attitude that kept me out of playing SCA for over ten
> years. When I began sewing and decided I wanted wonderful garb for myself, I
> made a dress with colored gores and train; absolutely hiddious. I was
> approached by one person who I knew to be a period source for clothing. I
> asked her about the gown I was wearing. She laughed. And pointed. And
> ridiculed. **She** would not have done it that way, how silly, how mundane,
> how inept. I was flat out humiliated. Then she derided my having used 12
> stitches to the inch on my sewing machine and went on about how 10 stitches
> or less was period.... I was humiliated **again** and didn't go back for 10
> years. I was asking for guidence and got derision. And I believe this is the
> SCA longtimers greatest fault in many cases. We were all "learning" at one
> time, and yet we forget to act toward the "learner" as we would have liked to
> have been treated. I know all of us have had stories told to us, or been
> involved with them first hand, about newbies who have attempted to "play" but
> have been treated rudely, crudely, and just plain cruel by others who have
> played longer and harder at the game then the newbies who are just coming
> out. It is unreal to me that I would accost a newbie about using poly-cotton
> material  and gold metalic nylon trim on his/her first attempt at costuming.
> I would find something "good" to comment on, whether it be the color, the
> style, the fit, or--as in one case--the buttons. Newbies are extremely
> fragile creatures who are shocked beyond concept and right out of the mood of
> participating if treated too roughly. Its like slamming the oven door on a
> soufle; it makes the soufle still eatible but not at all desirable to have.
> Yes, we need to teach proper technique and background for the different areas
> that constitute our disciplines, but "teaching" is the word to remember.
>
> I believe that since the computer age and these lists came into being, we on
> the lists are sometimes the first forage into finding out about a discipline
> others would like to learn. This list is for me. I'm learning a lot by
> lurking here. And I haven't really spoken out before because I do not have
> the expertise of many of the others here who are so well read and
> accomplished. But others who surf the net from smaller climes and come online
> to learn can be damaged enough not to return. And that would hurt the process
> of learning and passing on learning. Knowledge dies if not kept alive. Look
> at how much effort goes into deciphering a once found receipe. I would like
> to think that because I will teach my kids slowly and garner their interest
> in cooking that in 10 years when they do their first feast it will not be so
> difficult for them because of the effort we have put forth--and because we
> pass it on. The difference is, as a teacher, I know it is best learned for
> some gently and as it can be absorbed.
>
> Okay, shutting up again.
>
> Lars
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