SC - Re: RAbiola rabiole could this be related to RAFIOWLS

[Philip & Susan Troy]

- -Poster: <Elysant at aol.com> 

Morwyn wrote:
 
>I noticed that there actually seemed to be two distinct types of pie/tart 
>referred to in period pictures and texts. One was generally called _Pie_, 
>was as tall or taller than it was wide, seems to have been made with 
>hot-water pastry, and was generally made by specialized pie-makers, and 
>baked in a full-size oven. The other was called _Tart_ (or torte, torta). It 
>was shallow and broad, as our modern American pies are, and was made with a 
>flour-water-olive oil pastry or any of several different kinds of 
>?shortcrust, but not hot-water pastry. 

I think generally this still holds true with pies and tarts in Britain today. 
 Pork pies and another pie of a veal and ham combination with whole hard 
boiled eggs in the middle, to name two, are hot water pastry pies, with thick 
crusts, and both are very deep pies, Pork pie "sides" measure almost, if not 
more than the diameter of the top crust, and usually they are smaller and 
round shaped.  The veal and ham pies, on the other hand, are a long loaf 
shape, and look square when viewed "edge on" (like a long brick). 

Inside these pies, there is usually just a solid chunk of minced meat, or 
meat and whole hard boiled eggs.  They are usually eaten cold, and are 
popular "pub food".  I believe both pies to have come down to us from quite 
some time back, but I do not have documentation as to how old they really are 
unfortunately.  
 
"Tarts"  continue still to be constructed as m'lady Morwyn states.

>It could be baked at home, on the 
>hearth, in a lidded pan with coals placed both beneath the pan and on top of 
>the lid, making a small oven of the pan itself. 

Using this method of cooking cakes is found in traditional Welsh recipes 
also, one version of  "Teisen Lap" that I posted a while back has this 
method, but no coals on top of the lid.

Also, I have a "very old and good" Welsh pie recipe wherein the meat and 
vegetables are placed in a dish, 2 inches of water is poured on top, a crust 
is added, the pie is then cooked, the bones and onion and salt and pepper are 
boiled together seperately as the pie is baking, and this stock is then 
strained and poured into the pie, on top of the filling, before the pie is 
served.

I'm wondering if there are any other pie recipes people know that are 
prepared like this?

Also, this recipe is for a one crust pie.  Is there any documentation as to 
whether one crust or two crust pies are earlier in origin?  I seem to 
remember this was brought up a while ago here, but I might be mistaken...  

Elysant