SC - Re: creme boylede
allilyn@juno.com
allilyn at juno.com
Tue Mar 14 15:32:47 PST 2000
Yep, I thought I had seen it here. There is lots of interesting info in
this post, so I thought I'd recycle it.
Christianna
- --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Margo Hablutzel" <margolh at nortelnetworks.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:56:26 -0600
Subject: SC - Kosher Gelatin
Since a trip to the local grocery on my lunch hour didn't answer my
question
about whether kosher gelatin is from animals or not (they didn't have
any,
just chocolate pudding), I decided to check the Web. I did find a page
that discusses kashrut at http://www.ohr.org.il/ask/ask225.htm#Q1
<http://www.ohr.org.il/ask/ask225.htm#Q1> for those who want some
analysis,
and another at http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm which gives a much
longer
explanation. (And a page at http://www.torahscroll.com/to10017.htm
<http://www.torahscroll.com/to10017.htm> talking about what you cannot
eat
specifically at Pesach and what things to look out for as they may be a
problem.)
>From http://www.users.interport.net/~sue/food/gelatin.html
<http://www.users.interport.net/~sue/food/gelatin.html> the following
information:
I [NOT Morgan, but the person who owns the webpage] called Kraft to
inquire
about the source of gelatin and if it's a kosher product. The Consumer
representative answered my questions to the best of her ability, but in
addition sent a fact sheet about it (Note: I never noticed before the
dash
in Jell-O brand). Here are some excerpts, from the horse's mouth.
1.How is gelatin made?
"The production of the gelatin starts w/refinement of
collagen-bearing
tissues of ANY ANIMAL that has raised and slaughtered for food purposes.
....These materials are carefully soaked in alkalies and/or acids and
washed
in clean water to remove almost all non-collagen constituents, including
meat. During this soaking period the collagen is converted to gelatin.
The
treated materials are then cooked gently in pure water to extract the
gelatin, which is further refined by filtration....(Contrary to common
belief, gelatin is not manufactured from horns or hooves or meat of
animals,
for these do not contain the necessary collagen).
"It is interesting to note that during manufacture of gelatin,
chemical
changes take place so that, in the final gelatin product, the
composition
and identity of the original material is completely eliminated. Because
of
this, gelatin is not considered a meat food product by the United States
government..."
The sheet also reminds us that gelatin is used to coat medicine
pills
as well.
2.Is it Kosher and Pareve?
"JELL-O Brand gelatin is certified as Kosher by a recognized
orthodox
Rabbi as per enclosed RESPONSUM. In addition to being Kosher, Jell-O is
also
Pareve, and can be eaten with either a meat meal or a dairy meal."
They included a sheet with a copy of "The Halachic Basis of our
Kashruth Certification of Atlantic Gelatin and the General Foods Products
containing this Gelatin" by Rabbi Yehuda Gershuni & Rabbi David Telsner.
The
upshot is that since the collagen has been taken apart by the chemical
digestion and a new substance has been produced it meets the
specifications
of the Orthodox Dietary Laws and is Kosher and Pareve.
And from http://www.vegweb.com/faq/gelatin.shtml
<http://www.vegweb.com/faq/gelatin.shtml> the following question:
What's the difference between gelatin and Kosher gelatin?
From: Howard - softsell at inforamp.net
"Gelatin is a tasteless, odorless substance extracted by boiling bones,
hoofs and other animal tissues.
In the Jewish faith, some consider it Kosher and others do not, the
argument
being from those who do "that the nature of the substance has changed
sufficiently in the course of its manufacture, to make the original
matter
inert, thus removing it from the category of a food item." This has to do
with Jewish dietary law and Talmudic definition - not whether the product
is
made from animal parts - because it is. Gelatin - Kosher or regular - is
an
animal-based product.
Just as gelatin (from animals) can be marked "Kosher," it can also be
marked
"Pareve" (non-meat and non-dairy) for the same reasons - because it is a
derivative. While Pareve products do require Kosher certification and
Kosher
and/or Pareve gelatin is sometimes made with carrageenan or agar-agar as
the
gelling agent, it is best to stick with products that specifically state
they are made from a non-animal source. Popular brands include Carmel,
Haddar, Kojel and Victors."
This is from http://www.ohr.org.il/ask/ask127.htm#Q1
<http://www.ohr.org.il/ask/ask127.htm#Q1> which is part of the "Ask the
Rabbi" column (very interesting!):
Dry Bones and Jell-O(tm)
Contents
DanPatents at aol.com wrote:
Dear Rabbi,
Wait a minute. Did you say [Ask the Rabbi Issue #123] "About oinkers, the
Torah prohibits eating the flesh only. The hoofs, hair and bones
(excluding
the marrow), are permitted?????" Hummmh. Isn't unkosher gelatin made from
pigs' hooves? Then why is it unkosher if it's kosher? I always thought
nothing edible about the pig was kosher. Please expand on this question.
Dear DanPatents at aol.com,
Gelatin is made from collagen, an animal protein. Collagen is extracted
from
the skin/bones of cows or pigs. It's soaked and cooked, then filtered,
refined and evaporated. The finished product is gelatin.
The Torah prohibits only the meat of unkosher animals, but not the bones,
horns or hoofs.
The Sages, however, forbade any bones, horns or hoofs which contain
moisture. According to this, food made from unkosher bones is forbidden,
unless the bones were completely dry.
But during the manufacturing of gelatin, the animal extract becomes
totally
inedible, such that even a dog will no longer eat it. Now, food which
even a
dog won't eat loses its status as food. Halachically, it's no different
than
stones or dirt which are you allowed to eat!
Based on this, some authorities permit gelatin from unkosher animals,
since
during the process the animal extract becomes unfit for even a dog. Rabbi
Moshe Feinstein, zatzal, rules otherwise. He writes that although the
animal
parts are inedible in the middle of the process, this inedible state is
only
temporary. Since at the end of the process the unkosher bones are
'resurrected' into an edible product, the original prohibition remains.
In the United States, almost all kashrut organizations accept the
stricter
opinion and do not endorse gelatin made from unkosher derivatives.
Sources:
Leviticus 11:9
Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Laws of Prohibited Food 4:21
Tractate Temura 31
Rabbi Chaim Ozer Grodzinski, Responsa Achiezer vol. 3, 3:5
Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, Responsa Iggrot Moshe Yoreh De'ah 2:23
Bob wrote:
Is gelatin from a kosher animal pareve?
Dear Bob,
During the process of making, the animal parts become inedible and lose
their status as meat. Also, they lose any taste of meat. In theory, such
gelatin would be pareve - meaning you can eat it with milk. In practice,
kosher gelatin is usually made of agar-agar - a plant (seaweed)
derivative.
One more, from a page
(http://www.enter.net/~sonofisrael/kashrut_.html#gelatin
<http://www.enter.net/~sonofisrael/kashrut_.html#gelatin> ) talking
about
what is acceptable at Pesach:
MARSHMALLOWS AND GELATINS
Although many Kosher-for-Passover marshmallows are presumably made
without
chometz ingredients, they nevertheless can contain a highly controversial
year-round ingredient: gelatin. The main sources of gelatin are cattle
and
hogs. The collagen in the bones and skin of these animals is converted by
soaking 2"x3" strips of hide in hydrochloric acid until it turns into
ossein. This is then soaked in lime for about a month, and then it is
washed
in sulfuric acid to obtain the gelatin. In 1912, Rav Chaim Ozer
Grodzenski
ZT"L sent a response to the Royal Gelatin Company concerning the methods
of
obtaining kosher gelatin from non-kosher hides. In 1950, Rav Lazer Silver
vehemently opposed the hechsher on a well-known gelatin product. In 1966,
Rav Moshe Feinstein ZT"L, and Rav Aaron Kotler ZT"L opposed all gelatins
that were not obtained from a kosher source. Kosher gelatin, from kosher
slaughtered animals, tends to be too expensive for companies to produce.
This is the reason that the O/U, O/K, Star K and other reliable
certifying
agencies insist on a gelatin substitute in products needing gelatin.
Marshmallows are a prime example of such a product. Some acceptable
substitutes for gelatin are: Japanese gelatin, Japanese insinglass, agar
agar, Chinese moss, Irish moss, carrageenan. However, there is a new type
of
fish gel that is being used in pharmaceuticals and this may prove in the
future to be a better substitute for gelatin. Even one marshmallow being
sold which states "Kosher Beef Gelatin" is produced from dried beef bones
from India which were not slaughtered kosher. Fortunately a truly
reliably
certified kosher gelatin is now being produced under the supervision of
Rabbi Shimon Eider and have produced "Kosher for Passover" marshmallows
for
the first time.. The brand name is Kolatin. It is obtained from Glatt
kosher
hides.
So it appears that kosher gelatin CAN be made from animals, and is not
all
vegetarian as Sindara suggested. My vegetarian friend is correct.
The Rabbi who gave the next-from-last answer discusses locusts at
http://www.ohr.org.il/ask/ask019.htm#Q1
<http://www.ohr.org.il/ask/ask019.htm#Q1>
And says that sushi is kosher (if the fish is a kosher type) because the
Torah does not forbid fish blood, only animal and fowl blood.
http://www.ohr.org.il/ask/ask185.htm#Q2
<http://www.ohr.org.il/ask/ask185.htm#Q2>
More some other time. Maybe how the Jew turned a cow into a fish?
---= Margo Lynn
|\ THIS is the cutting edge of technology!
8+%%%%%%%%I==================================================---
|/ margolh at nortelnetworks.com <mailto:margolh at nt.com> *
Hablutzel at compuserve.com <mailto:Hablutzel at compuserve.com>
Morgan Cain * Steppes, Ansteorra
May God have mercy on my enemies
For they shall certainly need it.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
I intend to live forever -- so far, so good!
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