SC - Americans and corn (was: Food guessing game)

[LrdRas@aol.com]

Ras,
I find your commentary most illuminating, and agree with you with regard to the
origin of many of the "high holy days" of Christianity.

However, I do question your statements that Christianity did not pervade the
whole population of the various European countries.  Early on, in the Medieval
period, you are probably correct.  But, as time went on, my understanding is that
it became so much a part of the lives of everyone that, when King John was
excommunicated by the Pope and an Interdict was laid on England, the people,
common and noble, all suffered from this as no one could be buried in holy ground
and no one could be married.  The availability of "sanctuary" was another
religious "right" that was available to one and all, again both noble and
peasant.

The use of the holy days from the old religions was a calculated action on the
part of the Church as it made the acceptance of Christianity and its festivals
easier for the common people as they already celebrated those days, and it was an
easy transfer.

Kiri

LrdRas at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/4/00 11:51:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lcm at efn.org
> writes:
>
> << Sigh. Did you not have your caffeine today Ras? ;-)
>
>  Christianity thoroughly permeated lives of everyone in western Europe in
>  the Middle Ages- not just the nobility. >>
>
> While the use of or abstention from certain foods on certain days is
> appropriate for this list and most likely was given lip service by noble
> households. Such a topic can be discussed in detail I have no doubt but only
> if 'custom' is given depth by pointing out the ACTUAL background for the
> feast/fast days along side of the OFFICIAL Church reason.
>
> I have had my coffee. But I believe your 'theory' about the pervasiveness of
> Christianity during a large part of the SCA beyond it's immediate influence
> on the nobles and the wealthy is simply based on inaccurate and questionable
> sources. Those sources are the writings of the priests, holy men, nobles and
> others who were actually a part of the spread of that particular religious
> practice. The reality of the matter is that preexisting pagan practices
> almost without exception underlay every major holiday during the middle ages.
>
> For instance, Christmas Day (which was not a major holiday in the middle
> ages) was, for centuries before Christianity came into the picture, the
> birthday of Mithra in Rome, The Green Man in England, the birth of the Sun in
> many of the rest of the European and other cultures, The Light in the
> Zoroastrian religion and the birth of Buddha and Krishna in India. All of
> it's attendant 'ceremony' is almost exclusively borrowed from other faiths.
> The same holds true for Yule, Easter (Oestra the goddess), St. Brighid's Day
> (Brigid the goddess) and many of the other saint's days. The Church adapted
> rather freely from the actual practices of the people she sought to
> subjugate.
>
> I am not dismissing Christianity as a viable religion but as a non-Christian
> I see little actual influence during the middle ages beyond those in power. I
> see no influence whatsoever on the peasantry regarding the days they chose
> for either celebratory or purgative practices.
>
> There are many sources which totally debunk the myth of the Church as a
> religious practice having any significant influence on the peasantry.
> Planting, harvesting butchering and slaughtering, etc., were based on the
> phases of the moon and the passage of the stars and planets. While I agree
> that the cloistered scholars willy nilly assigned their own saints days to
> the already established natural cycle, this does not seem to me to be a basis
> for assuming that they had any real 'influence' on the masses who used those
> holy days before the Church was a twinkle in Rome's eyes.
>
> However, given the influence it had on the ruling classes, I would be most
> interested to know what direct influence, if any, it had on actual feast
> preparation outside well known Lenten practices (which themselves seem to be
> derived from specific practices non-Christian rites practiced during Roman
> times).
>
> Ras
>
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