Presenting Feasts/Re: SC - Serving question

[Elaine Koogler]

>     Correction:  it is JVButlerJr at aol.com who posted the comments about
> Cariadoc's area of research, not Cariadoc himself.  And it wasn't
> RButler96 at aol.com.  Please read *all* of the message before commenting on it,
> and when you point fingers and assign blame, please do so toward the correct
> people.

This was another example of someone not looking at the address before hitting
the "Send" button. The post was supposed to be private and was publically
posted.
And I do agree with the last statement.

>     For the record, I am new to the list.  I've been in the SCA for 10 years,
> but only recently joined this list.  I was *hoping* to find a place where I
> could pick up some interesting period recipes, maybe share a couple of my
> own, and generally learn more about the skill of feastcratting than I already
> know.

But I feel you came into this list with the same attitude that many who
subscribe
feel. That you are an expert and you are going to teach those yokels how it is
done. Then when you are called on some of your suppositions, refuted by
documentation,
and asked to be polite you rebel. You are not alone, we have had this happen
many
times on this list. In fact when I started this I felt that I would be a voice
of
authority until I realized that I didn't know all that much.

All of the towering egos that first joined this list have learned that they
don't know
everything either. They have learned to not make reactionary statements without
having something to back it up. They have also learned courtesy. This is not the

IRC or Rialto. This is my list and it follows my rules. Courtesy is rule number
one
and the first impression I recieved from you was the breaking of rule number
one.
Whether your point was valid or not you should not have presented it in such a
tone and you should not have gotten defensive when people called you on it.

The basic premise is that I have allowed you to meet in my living room. If you
conduct yourself as a proper houseguest you are allowed to stay, if you are
rude,
vulgar, threatening, or derogotary you are shown the door.

>     Instead, because I make one comment about how a person who concentrates
> on the Andalusians might not know everything about the Turks, and make
> another comment in defense of my wife, I have found myself in a constant,
> ongoing battle about what is or is not period in the first place.

No. You basically slandered a respected member of this list. It wasn't one
comment
but several paragraphs of rather hostile language. It wasn't the idea anyone was

attacking but the method in which you expressed it.

>     To say that I am disappointed is an understatement.  I never expected
> such resistance to new (and yes... perhaps incorrect...) ideas that challenge
> "what everyone knows".  Its enough to drive a person out of the hobby
> altogether.

What resistance? You made several statements that go against common
notions, implied that if anyone didn't believe you they were eurocentric bigots,

and supplied nothing to back up your comments. When people informed you that
your ideas were new and asked you to put up or shut up you called it attacks
with more inflammatory remarks. It was only when several people told you that
they not only were not eurocentric but they also had documentation to back up
their claims you began to act a bit more civilized. As have many on this list
who
had some of the same difficulties as you expirienced.

>     This list is not worth the aggravation.

I sometimes feel that , it isn't. But I've had to put up with people coming on
with these attitudes for three years now. Instead of throwing up my hands in
defeat,
as I'm in the mood to do right now, I keep it running because there is a hell of
a lot
of information that is distributed on this list. I've seen aspects of the SCA
change
due to the  direct impact of this list. And I've seen a lot of "experts" realize
they
don't know everything and actually learn stuff.

> I am sorry I ever was stupid
> enough to subscribe to it.  I find several of you to be hidebound,
> closed-minded, and rude.  Not all of you by any means.  But enough of you.

I hope you re-read some of your posts and look in the mirror.

>     So here's my last statement:  I wish all of you well.  Those of you who
> have done nothing but scream at me since I arrived, I suggest you seek out a
> therapist... or maybe dig your pointy little heads out of your asses.  There
> is no need to be so condescendingly right that you must prove others utterly
> wrong.

You have been "screamed" at because you walked in and picked several fights.
Then you get angry when people pick up the gauntlets you throw. Providing
evidence counter to a supposition is not being condescendingly right. It is
providing
a basis of your argument.

As the list administrator I know who is subscribed and not subscribed to this
list
and I see you have not left yet so I know this will reach you. There are
frequent temper
tantrums on this list and people storming off to unsubscribe but they don't.
After
awhile they learn how this list works and become productive members. If I don't
sound very courteous or polite in this letter it is because I'm sick of dealing
with
attitudes like yours. If you decide to learn how to be polite and actually open
your
mind for a minute instead of taking everything as a personal attack you will be
welcome
in polite company again. You are allowed to remain a subscriber as well. I hope
you
see the wonderful resource this list is. But if you ever post with such an
attitude again
you will be asked to leave my house.

>     Vaya con dios,
>     Suleyman

Gunthar Jonsson
List Administrator

(If I have to put up with another such incident within the next month this list
will
end. I'm too busy to have to teach adults how to be courteous.)