SC - French Bread - a supposedly period recipe (long)
Elaine Koogler
ekoogler at chesapeake.net
Thu Oct 5 13:27:22 PDT 2000
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By the bye....this message came out on my machine (normal garden-variety
Netscape) super-imposed over the one from Cariadoc. By calling up a
reply window I was able to read what you said.
Kiri
"Decker, Terry D." wrote:
> Thank you for the original and your comments.I would point out that
> the cup measures for the flour is misleading. Two pints of flour
> weighs 15 ounces. Four cups of sifted flour weighs approximately 16
> ounces, while the same of unsifted flour weighs upwards of about 20
> ounces. The six cups in Anne-Marie's recipe probably weighed about 30
> ounce and required the extra milk to make up for the reduced
> percentages butter and eggs.Also, it is the rise that is 80 minutes
> not the baking. Then the loaf is flattened into a cake or a tart and
> baked "almost three-quarters of an hour baking, or at least a great
> half hour." Say 35 to 45 minutes, which suggests a 400 - 425 degree F
> oven. The recipe is similar to brioche and some of the dessert breads
> I've made.Were I experimenting:Scald 1/2 cup of milk and melt 1 cup of
> butter in it.When the milk has cooled to lukewarm, dissolve 2
> teaspoons of dry active yeast in it.Take 1 lb of flour in a bowl, sift
> in 1 teaspoon of salt, add the two eggs and stir them into the flour
> with a fork. Stir the milk into the flour and work the dough into a
> ball.Remove the dough to a floured surface and knead. Add only enough
> flour to keep the dough from sticking to the surface.The dough will be
> very soft and probably oily to the touch. The surface of the dough
> should be smooth, but it may not be as elastic as a standard bread
> dough.Place the ball of dough in an oiled bowl. Cover the bowl and
> allow the dough to rise. Rising on the counter may take longer than 80
> minutes (say 2 hours). Rising in the oven at 90 degrees F might work,
> but most thermostats tend to be off and the temperature differential
> can kill the yeast on the bottom of the bowl while top rises (as one
> of my co-workers found out).Spread out the dough in a tart pan.Garnish
> it, which can mean just about anything, but I would accept a butter or
> egg glaze (bread dipped in eggs sounds like it might be an egg glaze)
> sprinkled with seeds, pieces of wine plumped dried fruit, raisins,
> etc.Bake it at 400 degrees F for 40 - 45 minutes, or until done.If the
> garnish is a dessert topping, sprinkle the top with finely ground
> sugar. Rosewater is a scribal error.This looks interesting and I may
> try it after the madness of the Protectorate Feast is done. Bear
>
>
> Unfortunately, this is not a period recipe for French bread.
> As I pointed out to the author prior to publication, the
> worked out version quoted below has quantities and
> instructions that are inconsistent with the original it is
> supposed to be based on. Furthermore, the recipe is from a
> book published in the mid-17th century (The Perfect Cook , a
> translation of Le Patissier françois, published in London in
> 1656). Hence even the original is not a period recipe. Here
> is what I believe to be the original (I'm getting it from
> something Anne-Marie sent me prior to the C.A., but it was
> accompanied by the same worked out version).----To Make
> Another Soft Cake or Tart Without Cheese, which cake the
> Flemmings do call Bread dipped in Eggs.
> Put into a Bason, or upon a Table, two pints of fine flower,
> break and beat two eggs into it, adde there unto half a
> pound of fresh butter which you shall have caused to be
> melted over the fire, with a quarter of a pint of milk, put
> also into this mixture a spoonful of good beer yeast which
> is somewhat thick, and rather more than less, as also salt
> at discretion. You must mixe and work all these things
> together with your hands, till you reduce them into a
> well-knitted paste, and in the kneading of this your paste
> you must now and then powder it with a little flower.
> Your paste being thus well powdered will be firm, after
> which make it up into the form of a Loaf, and placing it
> upon a sheet of Paper, you much cover it with a hot Napkin.
> You must also observe to set your said paste neer unto the
> fire, but not too high, lest that side which should bee too
> nigh the fire might become hard. You shall leave this said
> paste in the said indifferent hot place untill it be
> sufficiently risen, and it will require at least five
> quarters of an hours time to rise in and when it shall be
> sufficieiently risen, which you may know by its splitting,
> and separating it self, you must make it up into the form of
> a cake, or tart, which you must garnish over, and then put
> it into the Oven to bee baked.The Ovens hearth must be as
> hot almost as when you intend to bake indifferent great
> household Bread. This Tart or Cake will require almost three
> quarters of an hours baking, or at least a great half hour;
> and when it is drawn forth of the Oven, you may powder it
> with some sugar, and sprinkle it with some rosewater before
> you do serve it up to the Table, which depends of your
> will.---- Here are the comments I sent prior to the
> publication of the C.A. version. ---French bread: The
> relative quantities in the recipe do not correspond to the
> original.
>
> Original: Redaction
>
> 2 pints=4 c flour 6 c flour
> 2 eggs 2 eggs
> 1/2 lb = 1 c butter 1 c butter
> 1/4 pint=1/2 c milk 1 3/4 c milk
>
> So the redaction has the same amount of butter as the
> original, half again as much flour, and more than three
> times as much milk. That isn't the same recipe. It is also
> being baked for 80 minutes (unless the author means "1/2
> hour, then enough longer to make a total of about 50
> minutes," which isn't what she says), when the original is
> for 30-45 minutes. Perhaps making the dough considerably
> wetter results in its requiring a longer baking time----As
> this example suggests, a system of asking people to comment
> on C.A. manuscripts in advance, as was done here, only works
> if the author or editor then makes use of the comments to
> correct errors in the original.--
> David/Cariadoc
> http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
>
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By the bye....this message came out on my machine (normal garden-variety
Netscape) super-imposed over the one from Cariadoc. By calling up
a reply window I was able to read what you said.
<p>Kiri
<p>"Decker, Terry D." wrote:
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<span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Thank
you for the original and your comments.</font></font></font></span><span
class=290125118-05102000></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>I
would point out that the cup measures for the flour is misleading.
Two pints of flour weighs 15 ounces. Four cups of sifted flour weighs
approximately 16 ounces, while the same of unsifted flour weighs upwards
of about 20 ounces. The six cups in Anne-Marie's recipe probably
weighed about 30 ounce and required the extra milk to make up for the reduced
percentages butter and eggs.</font></font></font></span><span
class=290125118-05102000></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Also,
it is the rise that is 80 minutes not the baking. Then the loaf is
flattened into a cake or a tart and baked "almost three-quarters of an
hour baking, or at least a great half hour." Say 35 to 45 minutes,
which suggests a 400 - 425 degree F oven. The recipe is similar to
brioche and some of the dessert breads I've made.</font></font></font></span><span
class=290125118-05102000></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Were
I experimenting:</font></font></font></span><span
class=290125118-05102000></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Scald
1/2 cup of milk and melt 1 cup of butter in it.</font></font></font></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>When
the milk has cooled to lukewarm, dissolve 2 teaspoons of dry active yeast
in it.</font></font></font></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Take
1 lb of flour in a bowl, sift in 1 teaspoon of salt, add the two eggs and
stir them into the flour with a fork. </font></font></font></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Stir
the milk into the flour and work the dough into a ball.</font></font></font></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Remove
the dough to a floured surface and knead. Add only enough flour to
keep the dough from sticking to the surface.</font></font></font></span><span
class=290125118-05102000></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>The
dough will be very soft and probably oily to the touch. The surface
of the dough should be smooth, but it may not be as elastic as a standard
bread dough.</font></font></font></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Place
the ball of dough in an oiled bowl. Cover the bowl and allow the
dough to rise. </font></font></font></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Rising
on the counter may take longer than 80 minutes (say 2 hours). Rising
in the oven at 90 degrees F might work, but most thermostats tend to be
off and the temperature differential can kill the yeast on the bottom of
the bowl while top rises (as one of my co-workers found out).</font></font></font></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Spread
out the dough in a tart pan.</font></font></font></span><span
class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Garnish
it, which can mean just about anything, but I would accept a butter or
egg glaze (bread dipped in eggs sounds like it might be an egg glaze) sprinkled
with seeds, pieces of wine plumped dried fruit, raisins, etc.</font></font></font></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Bake
it at 400 degrees F for 40 - 45 minutes, or until done.</font></font></font></span><span
class=290125118-05102000></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>If
the garnish is a dessert topping, sprinkle the top with finely ground sugar.
Rosewater is a scribal error.</font></font></font></span><span
class=290125118-05102000></span><span class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>This
looks interesting and I may try it after the madness of the Protectorate
Feast is done. </font></font></font></span><span
class=290125118-05102000></span><span
class=290125118-05102000><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Bear</font></font></font></span>
<blockquote
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr"> </div>
Unfortunately, this is not a period recipe for French bread. As I pointed
out to the author prior to publication, the worked out version quoted below
has quantities and instructions that are inconsistent with the original
it is supposed to be based on. Furthermore, the recipe is from a book published
in the mid-17th century (<font color="#000000"><i>The Perfect Cook</i>
, a translation of<i> Le Patissier françois</i>, published in London
in 1656).</font> Hence even the original is not a period recipe. Here
is what I believe to be the original (I'm getting it from something Anne-Marie
sent me prior to the C.A., but it was accompanied by the same worked out
version).----<i><font color="#000000">To Make Another Soft Cake or Tart
Without Cheese, which cake the Flemmings do call Bread dipped in Eggs.</font></i>
<br><X-TAB></X-TAB><i><font color="#000000">Put into a Bason, or upon a
Table, two pints of fine flower, break and beat two eggs into it, adde
there unto half a pound of fresh butter which you shall have caused to
be melted over the fire, with a quarter of a pint of milk, put also into
this mixture a spoonful of good beer yeast which is somewhat thick, and
rather more than less, as also salt at discretion. You must mixe and work
all these things together with your hands, till you reduce them into a
well-knitted paste, and in the kneading of this your paste you must now
and then powder it with a little flower.</font></i>
<br><X-TAB></X-TAB><i><font color="#000000">Your paste being thus well
powdered will be firm, after which make it up into the form of a Loaf,
and placing it upon a sheet of Paper, you much cover it with a hot Napkin.</font></i>
<br><X-TAB></X-TAB><i><font color="#000000">You must also observe to set
your said paste neer unto the fire, but not too high, lest that side which
should bee too nigh the fire might become hard. You shall leave this said
paste in the said indifferent hot place untill it be sufficiently risen,
and it will require at least five quarters of an hours time to rise in
and when it shall be sufficieiently risen, which you may know by its splitting,
and separating it self, you must make it up into the form of a cake, or
tart, which you must garnish over, and then put it into the Oven to bee
baked.</font></i><X-TAB></X-TAB><i><font color="#000000">The Ovens hearth
must be as hot almost as when you intend to bake indifferent great household
Bread. This Tart or Cake will require almost three quarters of an hours
baking, or at least a great half hour; and when it is drawn forth of the
Oven, you may powder it with some sugar, and sprinkle it with some rosewater
before you do serve it up to the Table, which depends of your will.</font></i>---- Here
are the comments I sent prior to the publication of the C.A. version. ---<font color="#000000">French
bread: The relative quantities in the recipe do not correspond to the original.</font>
<p><font color="#000000">Original:<X-TAB></X-TAB><span></span>
Redaction</font>
<p><font color="#000000">2 pints=4 c flour<X-TAB></X-TAB> 6
c flour</font>
<br><font color="#000000">2 eggs<X-TAB></X-TAB><span></span>
2 eggs</font>
<br><font color="#000000">1/2 lb = 1 c butter<X-TAB></X-TAB>
1 c butter</font>
<br><font color="#000000">1/4 pint=1/2 c milk<X-TAB></X-TAB>
1 3/4 c milk</font>
<p><font color="#000000">So the redaction has the same amount of butter
as the original, half again as much flour, and more than three times as
much milk. That isn't the same recipe. It is also being baked for 80 minutes
(unless the author means "1/2 hour, then enough longer to make a total
of about 50 minutes," which isn't what she says), when the original is
for 30-45 minutes. Perhaps making the dough considerably wetter results
in its requiring a longer baking time</font>----As this example suggests,
a system of asking people to comment on C.A. manuscripts in advance, as
was done here, only works if the author or editor then makes use of the
comments to correct errors in the original.--
<br>David/Cariadoc
<br><A HREF="http://www.daviddfriedman.com/">http://www.daviddfriedman.com/</A></blockquote>
</blockquote>
</html>
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