SC - Fw: Worst Critique Ever

[Philippa Alderton]

Subject: Re: Worst Critique Ever


>Well, since Llew has asked Hauviette to post his rebuttal publicly, I
>suppose I might just as well post my response publicly, under the heading
he
>sent it to me privately with.
>
>#################################
>
>Llew, the feast sucked- it was almost totally inedible, as I detailed.
>Normally, I like everything that was intended to be on the menu, with the
>exception of anise flavored foods, which, according to the ingredient list,
>were confined to the tea eggs, and the braised pork.
>
>You wrote:
>
>>First of all, in our Kingdom, it is traditional to wait a few weeks for
the
>>cook to recover and to perform their own post mortem.  It is only
>>courteous and polite.  By posting your remarks when you did, it served
>>only to pinpoint the exact feast you were describing in the minds of
>>many.You might
>>have included the Chief Cook's name and the event for all that it mattered
>>after that.
>
>How many? Hauviette and one or two others subscribe to SCA-Cooks List from
>the Middle Kingdom, and most of the rest of the SCA-Cooks List members
would
>have little to no way of finding out exactly which feast that was- the menu
>and ingredients were removed from the website by Tuesday, when I posted.
>
>>Further, I find it odd that you did not post these remarks to
>>our Kingdom Cooks' weblist (as I know you are a member).  I was always
>>taught that it is not polite to wash one's dirty linen in public.
>
>I wasn't interested in starting an arguement where everybody got
>personalities involved. There were what I felt were several very basic
feast
>rules seriously broken, to the diners' detriment. There are certain
>principles applicable to serving a meal to a large number of people,
>regardless of the venue, and serving badly cooked food is one of them.
>
>Further, the MK Cook's List is just starting to understand what good period
>food is all about. So far, the only really good period feast I've eaten in
>the MK was Jasmine's for Coronation. All the rest have been modern or
>marginal perioid in concept. I will admit that Jasmine's, yours at Harvest
>Days, and this one all avoided my favorite awful MK dish, the Deadly
Chicken
>(tm).
>
>As far as airing one's dirty linen in public, I can't think how more public
>one can get by serving an inedible feast to the populace. It's no wonder
the
>feast hall wasn't sold out, if this is a standard in our area.
>
>>. Further,
>>you have already been asked before by members of your own Kingdom to
please
>>take your criticisms directly to the cook involved before posting them
>>elsewhere as you create much more embrassment and resentment than would
>>otherwise have occurred.
>
>Actually, I have been asked by precisely one person in my own Kingdom to
>take these things to the Cook first- you. If I choose not to honor such a
>request, that is entirely at my own discretion.
>
>>>She has no reason to be embarassed as there was no one who left hungry.
>
>I beg your pardon? I left hungry, as did my tablemates. One of them, Andrew
>MacRobb, has instructed me to say, for him, that, and I quote directly,
"Any
>similarity between this meal and a Chinese feast was purely coincidental."
>He disliked it extremely as well, and as soon as dnaco.net email gets back
>on line (they've been broken down for over a week) he will post you with
his
>comments directly.
>
>>>Phlip, as you were not in that kitchen, you do not know what went right
or
>>wrong.
>
>No, I'm relying on a comment made by one of the Cooks in my hearing
>afterwards. She said that there had been some problems in the kitchen, and
>having dealt with similar difficulties before, I was being charitable.
>
>>To be blunt, you should have asked. I, myself, would have been glad
>>to have told you what went right and wrong.  The only "trouble" in the
>>kitchen was a pot of burned rice that meant we had less than we hoped >but
>as
>>there was so much other food, this did not seem to matter that much.
>
>Yes, there certainly was a plenitude of inedible food. Unfortunately, rice
>is a staple of a Chinese meal, and we were served only enough for one
>person, to feed a table of 8. And if that was the only trouble in the
>kitchen, why was the rest of the food so bad?
>
>(My comments about the condiments deleted. I admit I wasn't very nice ;-)
>
>>Again, by putting out a critique of this type, you are completely ignoring
>>your stated purpose of telling us how to make this feast better.
>>Inflammatory phrases and words only serve to hurt and embarass - not
>help.
>
>My point was that nothing I had available or could have brought would have
>made that food edible.
>
>>Further, your account comes off as more of an attack than a remediation.
>
>Not half as bad as the attack on my palate.....
>
>>Phlip, I made those eggs and they were soaked in the strongest mixture I
>>could create for almost three days. I do apologize if your egg was pale.
>
>I think they needed more soaking. The ones I saw at my table had a mild
>streak or two of grey- that was 8 out of how many? I can only judge by what
>I saw and tasted.
>
>>Unfortunately, confusion in the feast hall meant that we had to ask people
>>to leave the hall so we could finish setting up. This contributed to the
>>chill on the soup.
>
>Understood. However, it is usually a principle of good cookery, and, as I
>understand it, for feasts in general, that one leaves out foods that are
>good at room temperature, and provides the hot foods later, fresh from the
>stove, oven, or warming table.
>
>>Finally, a constructive comment!
>
>Hard to find something to comment constructively about. There were quite
>simply too many errors.
>
>>Quite bluntly, nothing in that feast was served uncooked. The buns were
>>steamed in an industrial steamer.
>
>Maybe you should have plugged it in?
>
>>Maybe they were not up to your standards
>>but they were thoroughly cooked. Again, you should have asked.
>
>Don't need to ask. I know what undercooked biscuit dough tastes like, and
>these were definitely undercooked.
>
>>Again, you err. No oil was used in the potstickers. That was juice from
the
>>steaming of the meat and they were quite edible.
>
>Meat juice = oil/grease.
>
>>I have two bags frozen in
>>my freezer and am planning on having them tonight as a matter of fact.
>
>Oh? Why didn't they get served at the feast? Our table's serving plate
>consisted of 16 of the half raw steamed buns, and 8 of the potstickers. As
I
>said, three bites per person.
>
>>>About an hour's wait, for anything else...
>
>>If you are going to critique a feast, at least don't exaggerate.  The
>entire
>>three course feast with desert was on the tables within 1 1/2 hours.  I
was
>>helping expedite so therefore I was keeping a close eye on the clock. Yes,
>>things did come out slower than we intended but we were trying to make
>>certain the chicken was served as hot as possible and were delayed by a
>>burned pot of rice.
>
>Andrew was timing it, but there was an almighty long wait for anything
else.
>I know I had time for at least 4 cigarettes while I was waiting- with a
fair
>ammount of time waiting before I went out, and another good wait when I
>finally came back in.
>
>>>The steamed spinach appeared to have been frozen spinach, boiled to
death,
>>with toasted sesame oil and untoasted sesame seeds in it- the sesame oil
>was
>>
>>far too strong for the spinach as it should have been, and someone had
>>apparently added some sugar or other sweetener. Even the vinegars didn't
>>help.....
>
>>The spinach was steamed in an industrial steamer not "boiled to death".
>
>Don't know what you did to it, but it was soggy grass clippings, for all I
>could tell.
>
>>Also
>>please try to make your parts of speech match because it is impossible for
>>something to be "far too strong" and then "as it should have been". Please
>>try again when you have that thought sorted out.
>
>Quit being pissy. Actually, my phrasing makes perfect sense if you read and
>understand the English language competently. However, since apparently you
>don't, let me translate: The roasted sesame oil was far too strong for the
>spinach. Spinach does not benefit from the strong flavor of roasted sesame
>oil. The spinach should have been served with an unroasted sesame oil. Does
>that help? Next time, you might try reading the modifiers applied to the
>word(s) intended to be modified.
>
>>>Shortly after the spinach and rice, the braised pork and the stir fry
>>>arrived. The pork was served in a dried-out slab, almost tasteless, and
>>>indistinguishable from some badly over-cooked fish steaks I had once-
>>>halibut, I think. Again, nothing I had helped- Stubby got most of ours.
>>>Minimal spicing.
>
>
>>Again, you are not trying to critique - only insult.
>
>Don't have to "try" to insult. The meat was an insult to the animal which
>died to provide it.
>
>>And you are wildly
>>wrong here. That pork was so tender that when I cut it, it shredded like
>a
>good pot roast.
>
>Oh? The pieces I got didn't. Where'd the tender pork go? Home to your
>freezer?
>
>> As for minimal spicing, how come you could smell the pork
>>spices throughout the event and clear outside the building?
>
>Dunno- maybe it might have helped if you'd put the spices in the food?
>
>>As for your
>>overcooked fish, what on earth does that have to do with a legitimate
>>critique?
>
>Didn't realize I was getting paid or graded on my critique, unlike the
money
>I paid to be fed inedible food. My image was to point up the poor cooking
of
>the meat, whatever it was. You really should study the English language.
>
>>Again, you should have asked. The stir fry was stir-fried! If you did not
>>like it, dissect it by how you would improve it not by how clever you
think
>>you can put it down.
>
>The stir fry was stir boiled- I will not retract that statement. That's
what
>happens when people try to stuff too much food into a wok or a frying pan,
>and I don't care whether you had oil in it or not. How would I improve it?
>As I said- by making a number of smaller batches. Liked the idea provided
by
>someone on this List- using a grill to fry up a large batch.
>
>>>The noodles were served seperately, and almost edible, but at that point
I
>>>had entirely lost my appetite. I think they were boxed fettuchine.....
>
>>Did you eat them or not?
>
>I tried, but it's hard to eat very much lukewarm fettuchine when it's all
>stuck together.
>
>>>*Sweetened fruits
>>>Mandarin oranges in light syrup, pears, apples, honey
>>>
>>>These were the hit of the feast- someone remembered to bring a can
>>>opener....
>
>>Again, you faltered.  I don't know about you but I most certainly can tell
>>canned fruit from fresh and as I sat beside several people cutting and
>>peeling for most of the morning, I can state that you owe someone an
>apology
>>for that remark.
>
>Oh, the pears and apples were fresh enough. I was just glad someone
>remembered the can opener for the mandarin oranges.
>
>>>All in all, a truly miserable meal.
>
>>A matter of opinion.
>
>Yes, and having paid for a miserable meal, I'm certainly entitled to my
>opinion, and to publish it wherever I choose.
>
>>>I think that if you're going to make a meal such as this necessary to
>>>learn the cooking techniques of that culture, and have people trained in
>>>using them doing the cooking.
>
>>Again, as you weren't in the kitchen...
>
>Didn't have to be- I was in the feast hall, and I know what I was fed. I
>also know what good Chinese cooking tastes like, and this certainly wasn't.
>
>>>Most of this feast was just simply, badly cooked.
>
>>A matter of opinion.
>
>Shared by others, I might add.
>
>>>As an example, 4 people working on woks could have made the stir boil
come
>>>out as a stir fry, if they'd worked at it right, and had everyone served
>in
>>>about 15 minutes. Same with the steamed buns and the potstickers.
>
>>Phlip, again, you were not in the kitchen. This is supposition and
>something
>>that you will not really know until someone has authorized you to do an
>>actual feast for a large number of people.
>
>And you complain about my lack of constructive criticism? I'm telling you
>right here, one way to do the stir fry properly- and I passed on a
>suggestion from someone else above.
>
>Yes, I wasn't in the kitchen, and now I'm glad, because for all my faults,
>this meal isn't one I can be blamed for. And as far as doing a feast,
you're
>quite well aware my group has gone defunct, due to no fault of my own.
Until
>we revitalize it, or I join another, I likely won't be doing a feast
myself.
>But you can trust me on this- when I do, it will be completely period, good
>food, well prepared, and whatever gets screwed up (and there's always at
>least one dish at every feast that screws up) I'll accept responsibility
for
>my actions and my mistakes, instead of making a bunch of lame excuses.
>
>>>Chinese cookery for a large group is very labor intensive, as Adamantius
>>>said when
>>>we were discussing this , and my experience has told me that you keep the
>>>pans hot, pre-prep all the foods, and move fast.
>
>>I would ask Adamantius before you use his name to justify a critique of
>this
>>type. If you will remember, this is exactly the sort of critique that
>caused
>>such problems last year.
>
>Adamantius, if I used your name in any manner which you find offensive, my
>deepest apologies.
>
>As far as you go, Llew, I'm not using anybody's name but my own to
"justify"
>this critique- Adamantius got mentioned because I was discussing the feast
>with him, describing the results, and trying to understand what went so
>wrong, to produce the extremely disappointing results I suffered from. As
>far as causing such problems last year, last year I was quoting a friend
who
>chose to remain nameless, and his/her description of a feast, and I
>respected that.  Now, I am directly describing my experience as a diner at
>an inedible feast. I stand on my own feet, Llew, and take full
>responsibility for my actions. Neither Andrew, Adamantius, nor any of my
>other friends have any responsibility for anything I choose to do or not
do.
>
>>Phlip, as these are the same people who never seem to like anybody's
>feasts,
>>please, and I mean please, try asking a larger group of people what they
>>think. And again, why would comments of this type matter?
>
>Well, if this is your standard of production, they might be the same people
>who don't like your feasts. As far as I know, they all started out with
>every intention of enjoying this one until they tasted it. Why else would
>they have paid their money?
>
>>You Bet!  Once again, Phlip, you have not bothered to take into account
the
>>feelings and reputations of several cooks that I hold dear before spouting
>>off a half-cooked critique full of far more venom than temperance.
>
>Sorry about that. Perhaps they might consider serving a decent feast to
>improve their reps? Anybody who liked the feast won't be swayed by my
>comments- but so far, I haven't met anyone who liked it..
>
>> As I have
>>stressed to all when I judge A&S and when I critique feasts, you always
say
>>what went right first.
>
>Unfortunately, not much went right, other than the dessert.
>
>>Then, you say how you would have done things better.
>
>Tried, but you ignored half my suggestions. At this point, I think we'd
have
>been better off feeding the meal to the pigs, and having a pig roast.
>
>>Never use inflammatory language or phrases and never use terms that can be
>>taken in ways you do not intend.  From the title of your e-mail to the
>>appeal to others to justify this "critique", you have failed on all
>>accounts.
>
>"A matter of opinion"
>
>> Not only do you owe these cooks an apology, but you also owe them
>>a re-written, concise and fair critique posted on the same boards where
you
>>have posted your previous missives.
>
>Ok, you asked for it- "re-written, concise, and fair critique posted on the
>same boards where you have posted your previous missives".
>
>Here it is....
>
>THE BLAMED FEAST SUCKED!!!!!!!!!
>
>And Llew? Please don't wave your bay leaves at me. They represent someone
>else's opinion, not mine- you EARN my respect, you aren't granted it by
>right, or by fear. I had started to respect your knowledge about cookery,
>after the classes I took with you, and the feast you served at Harvest Day,
>but watching you play silly word games with this rebuttal, justifying the
>incredibly inedible, has you back to square one.
>
>Ain't nothing you've got that I want, Llew, and nothing you can do to make
>me change either my opinion or my free expression of it.
>
>
>
>Phlip
>
>Nolo disputare, volo somniare et contendere, et iterum somniare.
>
>phlip at morganco.net
>
>Philippa Farrour
>Caer Frig
>Southeastern Ohio
>
>"All things are poisons.  It is simply the dose that distinguishes between
a
>poison and a remedy." -Paracelsus
>
>"Oats -- a grain which in England sustains the horses, and in
>Scotland, the men." -- Johnson
>
>"It was pleasant to me to find that 'oats,' the 'food of horses,' were
>so much used as the food of the people in Johnson's own town." --
>Boswell
>
>"And where will you find such horses, and such men?" -- Anonymous
>
>