SC - Notes re Quinces in Paste

[Philip & Susan Troy]

david friedman wrote:
> 
> >>  Quyncis or Wardouns in past
> >>
> >>  XXI. Quinces or wardens in paste. -- Take and make nice round
> >>piecrusts of good pastry, then take good raw quinces, and peel them
> >>with a knife, and neatly take out their cores. Then take enough
> >>sugar, and a little powdered ginger, and stuff the core holes full;
> >>and lay two or three wardens or quinces in each piecrust, & cover
> >>them, and let them bake; and if you have no sugar, take honey; but
> >>then put powdered pepper on them, and ginger, in the same manner as
> >>above.

> Why did you modify the recipe? The original is pretty specific--two
> or three whole quinces. It sounds as though you are aiming at
> something that will look more like people expect, and less like what
> comes out from the original--which is, in my experience, pretty lumpy
> but good.

I changed the recipe because I figured that if it calls for round
coffins to be made, it would be nice to have a full coffin without a lot
of empty space, and four quinces worked pretty well. I probably should
have explained that, but I felt that since this was a structural change,
and not a chemical one, it was at least a reasonable attempt. If it
makes you feel any better, it was pretty lumpy anyway. Can you think of
a workable explanation, other than that they were those wacky medieval
folks, for why two whole quinces might be inserted into a round coffin?
Think in terms of a round coffin whose diameter is twice that of a
quince: what you end up with is a pie whose bottom/inside surface area
is somewhat under halfway full. Unless it contains a _lot_ of honey or
sugar, that's a lot of empty space, unless perhaps it is baked very
slowly, essentially stewed in the pastry, until they collapse and cover
the bottom. Then, of course, you have a big empty space on top.

I wonder if it is made with a flour-and-water paste, then stewed inside
the paste until soft, then spooned out like spiced wardens in syrup.
(Could a consideration be that quinces are a"heavy" fruit, requiring
much sweetening and long cooking, and would have a tendency to burn in
an ordinary cook-it-in-a-pot setting?) But what do you say to the
concept of gratuitous wasted flour? It's one thing to be liberal with
ingredients, but there's usually at least some reason for it. 

People _did_ eat the quarters first...
> 
> It might be worth noting, incidentally, that essentially the same
> recipe also appears in Du Fait de Cuisiine. Are there other sources
> as well?

There's a second recipe, I believe, in the _other_ Fifteenth-Century
Cookery-Book, what is it, Ms. Harl. 4016? I have another
fifteenth-century source in English to check, from yet another obscure
Constance Hieatt article... I don't recall seeing it in any of the other
French sources, or in the fourteenth-century English sources. I'll have
to see what I can dig up.
 
> I suggest that an interesting article for T.I. or Mary Mormon's
> newsletter might be a serious attempt to put together what we know
> about period crusts, along with experiments.

Sounds like a good idea. Presumably an overview of known recipes
spanning the known European sources (and perhaps Islamic ones, European
or no) along with what we know of serving practices and baking
technology, would be a good way to go.

If it hasn't been done by the time I'm finished with my Tour of Duty in
the EK A&S Office, I could do this...

Adamantius
- -- 
Phil & Susan Troy

troy at asan.com