SC - Notes re Quinces in Paste

[david friedman]

Adamantius posted:

>>>  Quyncis or Wardouns in past
>>>
>>>  “.xxj. Quyncis or Wardouns in past. -- Take & make fayre Rounde 
>>>cofyns of fayre past; (th)an take fayre Raw Quynces, & pare hem 
>>>with a knyf, & take fayre out (th)e core (th)er-of ; (th)an take 
>>>Sugre y-now, & a lytel pouder gynger, & stoppe (th)e hole fulle ; 
>>>& cowche .ii. or .iij. wardonys or quynce3 in a cofyn, & keuer 
>>>hem, & lat hem bake ; & for defaut of Sugre, take hony ; but 
>>>(th)en putte pouder Pepir (th)er-on, & Gyngere, in (th)e maner 
>>>be-for sayd.”
>>>  -- Harleian Ms 279, ~1420 C.E. “Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books”
>>>  ed. Thomas Austin, pub. Early English Text Society, printed by
>>>  The Oxford University Press, 1888, reprinted 1964 and 1996
>>>
>>>  XXI. Quinces or wardens in paste. -- Take and make nice round 
>>>piecrusts of good pastry, then take good raw quinces, and peel 
>>>them with a knife, and neatly take out their cores. Then take 
>>>enough sugar, and a little powdered ginger, and stuff the core 
>>>holes full; and lay two or three wardens or quinces in each 
>>>piecrust, & cover them, and let them bake; and if you have no 
>>>sugar, take honey; but then put powdered pepper on them, and 
>>>ginger, in the same manner as above.
>>>
>>>	This is a pretty straightforward recipe; the method not too 
>>>far from an apple pie made with an uncooked filling. Quinces 
>>>require longer cooking and, usually, more sugar or other 
>>>sweetening to be palatable. I used honey because I had a lot in 
>>>the house, and because I thought it would make for a more complex 
>>>flavor.
>>>	The filling consists of four quinces, three cored, peeled and 
>>>whole, plus one cut into smaller pieces to fill up any large, 
>>>empty spaces in the pastry.

and Cariadoc responded:

>Why did you modify the recipe? The original is pretty specific--two 
>or three whole quinces. It sounds as though you are aiming at 
>something that will look more like people expect, and less like what 
>comes out from the original--which is, in my experience, pretty 
>lumpy but good.
>
>It might be worth noting, incidentally, that essentially the same 
>recipe also appears in Du Fait de Cuisiine. Are there other sources 
>as well?

There is a 16th c. recipe (from _A Proper Newe Booke of Cokerye_) for 
apples done this way:

To make pyes of grene apples

Take your apples and pare them cleane and core them as ye wyll a 
Quince, then make your coffyn after this maner, take a lyttle fayre 
water and half a dyche of butter and a little Saffron, and sette all 
this upon a chafyngdyshe tyll it be hoate then temper your flower 
with this said licuor, and the whyte of two eggs and also make your 
coffyn and ceason your apples with Synemone, Gynger and Suger 
ynoughe. Then putte them into your coffin and laye halfe a dyshe of 
butter above them and so close your coffin, and so bake them. [end of 
original]

The first time I saw this I said, "Aha! Apple pie almost like my 
mother's!" It didn't occur to me until I saw the quince in paste 
recipe that the 16th c. recipe tells you to pare and core the apples, 
but it never tells you to cut them up. I now think this is another 
version of your recipe--one with a short crust.

Chiquart's version (Du Fait de Cuisine, 1420) reads (my translation):

Again, quinces in pastry: and to give understanding to him who should 
prepare them let him arrange that he has his fair and good quinces 
and then let him clean them well and properly and then make a narrow 
hole on top and remove the seeds and what they are wrapped in, and 
let him take care that he does not break through on the bottom or 
anywhere else; and, this being done, put them to boil in a fair and 
clean cauldron or pot in fair water and, being thus cooked, take them 
out onto fair and clean boards to drain and put them upside down 
without cutting them up. And then let him go to the pastry-cooks and 
order from them the little crusts of the said pastries to put into 
each of the said little crusts three quinces or four or more. And 
when the said little crusts are made fill the holes in the said 
quinces with very good sugar, then arrange them in the said little 
crusts and cover and put to cook in the oven; and, being cooked 
enough, let them be served. [end of original]

None of the three recipes has the modification Adamantius made of 
chopping up a quince. I think in all three cases, the idea is baked 
apples, pears or quinces, filled with sugar or honey and maybe some 
spices, in a crust which is clearly intended to be eaten in the 
latest version and may or may not be in the earlier ones.

Elizabeth/Betty Cook

P. S. from Cariadoc

Adamantius had written:

"the Neapolitan recipe is pretty much the same as Chiquart's, as far 
as I can tell. There appear
to be two basic methods, one of which involves cooked quinces, 
moistened and enriched with marrow, ...."

As you can see from the recipe given above, Chiquart's version, 
unlike the Neapolitan one that Adamantius gave, does not have marrow, 
although it does precook the quinces.