SC - Period pesto recipe- Roman Moretaria- LONG

Wed Oct 4 13:58:50 PDT 2000

In a message dated 10/4/00 9:21:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Master A clips 
the following then writes:

  ChannonM at aol.com wrote:
>  > 
>  > >  Could the four heads of garlic be roasted?  That gives it a much
>  > >  milder flavor.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > That would be an interpretation but there is no direction to do so in the
>  > original.
>  
>  Okay, perhaps I missed this, although I remember having exactly the same
>  questions after watching the moretum thread go by on the Apicius list.
>  
First things first, I am happily replying to this line of questions. Put 
happy faces where ever you feel the need. 

I am also on the Apicius list, although I was not attempting to hide  or 
divert that fact, I just didn't start out from that perspective. Just saying 
so that I clear the issue from enquiring minds. 
>  A) In the moretum/moretarium recipe that calls for the four heads of
>  garlic (in Virgil???), are the proportions of the other ingredients
>  specified? 
Not in their entirety, but reading the quote from Virgil, it is apparent that 
the garlic and cheese combinatin is no greater than the size of the mortar 
and that is of a size that he could scoop it with his hands. I would love to 
say cloves and use that approach when making sala cattabia or other moretum. 
As I say however, I have used fresh garlic picked from my garden and 4 heads 
would not be totally out of this world as you would imagine 4 heads of mature 
garlic would be.The quote is incomplete, but I believe it goes on to describe 
the moretum being eaten with the bread. That too would decrease the effect of 
the garlic.

The original poem says
"First, lightly digging into the ground with his fingers, he pulls up four 
heads of garlic with their thick leaves; then he picks slim celery-tops and 
sturdy rue and the thin stems of trembling coriander. With these collected hi 
sits before the fire and sends the slave girls for a mortar. He splashes a 
grass grown bulb with water and put it to the hollow mortar. He seasons wiht 
grains of sat, and after salt, hard cheese is added. then he mixes in the 
herbs. With the pestle, his right hand works at the fiery garlic then he 
crushes all alike in a mixture. His hand circles. Gradually the ingredients 
lose their individuality; out of the many colours emerges one-neither wholly 
green (for the white tempers it) nor shining white(since tinted by so many 
herbs)The work jgoes on; not jerkily as before, but more heavily the pestle 
make its slow circuits. So he sprinkles some drops of Athena's olive oil and 
adds a little sharp viegar, and again works his mixture together. Then at 
length, he runs two finger round the mortar, gathering the whole misture into 
a ball, soa as to produce the form and name of a finished moretum. Meanwhile 
busy Scybale has baked a loaf. This he takes after wiping his hands........"

from The Classical Cookbook, Sally Grainger

Do we know how much this is supposed to make? Is the question
>  of garlic sharpness mitigated by the fact that the dish is supposed to
>  be eaten with bread, IIRC?
see above 

Of course, we don't have the size of the garlic described so I believe we are 
relying on the timing of the poem (I'm not sure, but believe it was written 
for spring) I cant' commit to that though.

>  
>  B) Why (if you don't mind refreshing my memory) do you feel that moretum
>  is based on Apician originals (and sufficiently so to state it as an
>  empirical fact)? 

I reviewed what I posted 

This was sloppy. I indicate "morataria" (spelled incorrectly BTW, it's 
moretaria) but go on to describe sala cattabia. In addition, my use of the 
word "originate" was a poor choice, I should have said "can be found in" 
instead. I didn't mean to indicate that Apicius was the original, I really am 
not sure of the first origin, although Sally Grainger quotes Virgil as being 
the author of the poem that indicates the four heads of garlic in the recipe. 

My link between these two has been related to the Moretaria recipe in Apicius 
because  of discussions on the Apicius list that compared the Apendix 
Vergiliana  recipe for Moretum that included cheese. Ilaria Giacosa (A Taste 
of Ancient Rome) states that the Apicius recipe omits the cheese, and my 
recollection of discussions on this is that it could be interpretted that it 
was omitted because it is assumed that cheese will be included (careful with 
the dissection of that word "assume") The basic ingredients of garlic, herbs, 
cheese pounded together is the combination in sala cattabia with the addition 
of pine nuts- hence my connection to the discussion on period pesto recipes. 

Since we don't know when Apicius' recipes were actually
>  written and cooked for the first time, for sure, what real evidence is
>  there that sala cattabia is in any way an inspiration for moretum?

I don't think that sala cattabia is an inspiration for moretaria, I think it 
was a result of using moretaria.  

The
>  fact that part of sala cattabia seems to bear some similarity to pesto
>  and to moretum in re some common ingredients isn't necessarily relevant
>  when you consider that lots of things use those ingredients, and there
>  are quite a few Apician sauces that call for herbs, cheese, nuts and oil
>  to be pounded up in a mortar. But, BTW, almost none that call for garlic.

Except sala cattabia. I thought it significant that this dish includes 
garlic, herbs, cheese, nuts and oil all pounded. Agreed that "pesto" in and 
of itself is not sala cattabia, but the filling for sala cattabia, is most 
certainly IMO very similar to pesto. 

  To get back to the original topic of discussion, there's a lot of
>  evidence to suggest pesto is very old indeed. Its relationship to
>  moretum is pretty obvious, but I think the nature of the relationship of
>  both of these to sala cattabia is, well, a bit tenuous, and perhaps
>  could be either more clearly explained, or thought out differently.

Have I clarified my line of thinking or am I sounding unreasonable? 

 It
>  appears, from what I've seen, at least, that there's a chance that you
>  may be seeing a clear sequential relationship, or perhaps solidifying a
>  nebulous one, because you want it to be that way. Please don't take this
>  as criticism; it isn't intended to be, but it appears you're basing some
>  fairly heavy conclusions on some pretty weak premises. Unless there's
>  more evidence than you've mentioned.   
>  

First let me say that even if this is a criticism, it is heartily welcome. My 
post was vague, sloppy and not well thought out. I actually considered that 
when I posted and am glad that I still posted it anyway, because it caused 
you to point out the inadequacies. Let's say that I
needed that. I can be too quick to post and this was one of those occasions

If I may say something somewhat personal, 
I live in an immediate area where there is no one in my shire who cooks 
period food(they categorically state they never will, no matter how i try to 
persuade them), my Laurel is tied up with life in general and really isn't 
readily available to crack the whip sort-a-speak (If you knew her you'd know 
that was a joke statement) and there are few people I can discuss my work 
with(Jasmine is really the only person locally who I have to bounce ideas off 
of and we never have enough time to do that).  I really need a firm hand to 
give that tug of "Hey, what's this crap?"

I appreciate what you have said, and hope this subsequent post has clarified 
my thought processes. If what I have posted does not make sense, then feel 
free to address it accordingly.

Thank you for taking the time to question my post.

Sincerely,

Hauviette