SC - > So long as we are making assumptions on what the poorest folk did with cash

[Nicholas Sasso]

> So long as we are making assumptions on what the poorest folk did with cash 
> when they had it, it seems to me that a 'prosperous peasant' would be 
> inclined to buy  . . . . .  but that doesn't mean that, as a rule, peasants had spices.

>>> Jenne Heise<jenne at mail.browser.net> 10/27/00 4:44:54 PM >>>
<<<<Um, I think you are assuming that having enough money to buy a pennyworth
of pepper means you ahve enough money to do any of the above things.
Um. I think the difficulty is that people assume that if someone is a
peasant . . . . . . . . . . . . depending on how well the crops on
your land did, and how much land you managed to rent (and whether you had
rent), you could do enough in a year to be able to buy . . . . . . . . >>>>>>>>

I think I am losing track of the original assertion we were discussing.  I thought there 
was an assertion that amounted to "spices (black pepper in specific) were common 
among peasants".  I've deleted this thread as we went, so I lost track.  the 
contributions I have made are about the use of spices as tax tender, the existence of
 monopolistic importers, the motivation of spice trade to launch war and world 
exploration, positive statements by researcher that lower cost spices were definitely 
used as pepper substitute (e.g. mustard), and inquiry about authors' use of specific 
terms for balck pepper versus other peppers, the Medici's as wealthy spice magnates,
 and lack of hard statement that 'peasants' of a time or place bought or used spice, 
specifically black pepper (piper nigrum).  

I will agree to disagree in the absence of some hard reference on point that says 
directly that these facts and inferences I made from my above information are wrong.  Suppositions 
and assumption in the absence of academic support will only serve to muddy our 
discussions.  We need to define terms, as they seem to be shifting a lot as we have 
gone, define time frames, and decide what it is we are looking to find out.  I am saying
 simply that in no reference that I have encoutered have I read about peasant class 
(non-gentry, non-noble, non-merchant, non-titled, often tenant-servant, lacking 
significant disposable income beyond occasional seasonal harvest surplus) in any 
region or time block making regular, large scale use of Imported exotic Spice from the 
East.  Annecdote or single person aside, I would dearly love to find a reference about 
spice use by the less ecomnomically developed classes anywhere.  I am specifically 
seeking spice references for my current interests and projects, and have not found 
any yet.  I've got tons about nobles and wealthy merchants, but that is no real 
surprise.

I'm not saying it ain't so, just that from my deduction, based on presented evidence, it
 is more likely that spices were a pretty rare investment for this group of people.

niccolo difrancesco

(I almost forgot, I think that a pennyworth of spice would be a pennyweight (dwt) - 
one 20th of an ounce - rather than what a penny would buy, which would mean it could 
easily cost more than a penny; e.g. saffron is oft sold by pennyweight)